I think I've got room for eight. Two in the south, two in the west (counting the Standing Stones site), the capital and three in the east. Hopefully I can get a couple more cities on the islands to my SW and/or east.
Actually Serdoa hasn't confirmed our setting arrangement in the east yet... I've sent him a couple follow-up emails with no response, but I think he might just be busy IRL. He's been slow to respond to other communication as well. I guess I'll get to feel a little dumb if he decides to use the lack of a finalized deal to take spots I want, and in return he can feel a little sad when I eventually declare on him.
Oh wow, I don't even remember reading about that plan. Seems like it turned out to be pretty bad idea; there was no deterrence to prevent any of the civs from blabbing. At minimum, I bet currying favour from the orcs without doing much of anything must have been notably more enticing than pissing them off lol. With Sheaim in the game, I don't think our rivals would have necessarily considered Burning Embers to be OP enough to deserve early game shunning.
Considering how in PBEM 10
the plan to trade embargo Meatbalz in order to inhibit his TGL use leaked immediately despite it actually being to more of their benefit
makes me think trying to organize any mass alliance/movement against non-clear-cut-score-leader civ and trying to keep it secret is pretty futile (though of course I cannot find the related post in quick skim of mine, so you might only have directly talked with few people). Glad you persuaded the Orcs to abandon their choking plans though.
Huh, I might have forgotten to mention the settling plan thing here. I wasn't just being sardonic when I put it in scare quotes before. No confidential emails were passed or anything of the sort. I essentially just told SL that I was going to settle near the Clan, and that if he would do the same it could help contain the explosive growth civ. I then said the same thing to Sareln, and asked him to see if Iskender would likewise settle toward them.
So not an example of sterling diplomatic planning, but no Zimmerman Telegraphs sitting around a smoke-filled room either
Is it the chat with Tredje you want me to post? I do have it saved. I've avoided posting chats here because I personally find them boring to read and a little bit of a pain to edit, but if there's a certain convo you want me to share just ask.
It's my preference, but I generally like having access to all the communications. More materials for me to munch upon while waiting for updates, at least. Of course not having played PBEM before I have no idea how much you guys talk with each other, so if there are lot of irrelevant banters your decision to cut them out is definitely more prudent.
Still, the thing is that it would be the first-hand information, and I'd be reading the actual words written by participants. Your update is excellent, but having a dip on all correspondences gives me the impression of the knowledge being more... live? Like how historians prefer to force themselves through the massive paper piles from old archives, when simply reading a book summarizing the event written by others will be enough to gain rudimentary understanding? I'm afraid I may be rambling here
I can see how your thread may get cluttered up if you don't censor some of your knowledge though, even with use of spoilers, so I guess you can forward it to my e-mail at request or something. It'd be a pain but the effort would make one dedicated lurker happy Consider it my "work pay" of sorts, heh.
If you're considering adding more diplo chats and whatnot, I'd be interested in seeing them too. Your narrative (if I can call it that) is certainly interesting, but so is diplo and screnshots. As a non-dedicated lurker, I find it especially interesting to see how different players interpret the same mails/chats.
You're too kind, Hes. I don't think anything I've written here quite qualifies as "excellent" :P
Okay, I'll try to remember to share any future diplomatic correspondence of note here. I reserve the right to determine what is "of note", though
To give an indication of how much I talk with the other players, I have had a handful of chats with SL since the game started running, only a single "first contact" chat with Serdoa, Ditto for Iskender and Tredje (until our talk yesterday), and chats close to every day with Sareln. I haven't posted any of the Sareln ones yet though because they're long on text and short on content which can't be summoned up here in a couple sentences instead ("lizardmen retarding my [Sareln's] growth, Clan are scary"). Also the bulk of my chats with Sareln are about the RB FFH Paring Mod he's working on, and have nothing to do with the game. He updates his thread frequently after we talk, but I think that's a combination of my civ being slightly more interesting and him dialling me up once he gets his hands on the turn.
Here are a couple of my older chats, so you can get a taste of the wonders you have been missing:
My latest chat with SL-
Quote:12:22 PM Square Leg: At work now so can't send the save right away - I replayed the turn this morning since I made a boo boo when selecting. I must've forgot to delete the old save. I'll send it when i get home which won't be for another 6hrs i'm afraid. sorry - I am a lameoid.
12:39 PM Bobchillingworth: hey, np, I'm going to be out for a while anyway & unable to play
12:40 PM Square Leg: some gossip - clan cast for the horde Bobchillingworth: iiinteresting
that explains the super important info tredje needed to discuss before playing Square Leg: yup - I can see they got a goblin archer near sedoa
serdoa
12:41 PM can't see anything else though# Bobchillingworth: k
Actually, my latest chat with him was even shorter and involved him asking if I had the turn
Okay, so I'm sort of trolling you with that one. Here's a somewhat longer one from a couple weeks ago:
Quote:3:36 PM Square Leg Your status made me chuckle.
3:37 PM Bobchillingworth: haha, thanks Square Leg I always found it amusing that you weren't able to make tea... [For the record, my G-talk status at the time was: "Colonists hold New Amsterdam Horses Party! 36 tons of Horses thrown into the harbor!", an event from Colonization. The more you know...]
3:38 PM I hope all is well in the land of the clowns - I see you have settled your 2nd city - congrats! Bobchillingworth: thanks
apparently I was the first
3:39 PM Square Leg yup - looks that way
did you go towards clan Bobchillingworth: I had a slight head start due to the immigrants even giving me +1 pop, so I think everyone else will be expanding soon
and yeah
3:40 PM Square Leg cool - nice event - is that the one where you can get a free settler of 100gps? Bobchillingworth: yeah- I got it really early on though, so no chance for anything else Square Leg shame - I have settled my 2nd city too
it is vaguely towards the clan but not aggressive
3:41 PM my 3rd will be more in their direction i should imagine Bobchillingworth: sure
did your warrior outside my capital survive? Square Leg he did - he is wearing anti lizardman aftershave and so wan't attacked
3:42 PM I can send you an updated shot of the land in that area next turn if you like
some nice resources towards the Sheaim Bobchillingworth: yeah, I'd appreciate that
I think my next city will go in that direction
try to establish some cultural control over the area via Creative
3:43 PM Square Leg sure - on the topic of the sheaim that i nicely brought up - have you heard much from them?? Bobchillingworth: nothing since first contact Square Leg sounds about par for the course then Bobchillingworth: have you heard anything from the Clan?
3:44 PM Square Leg had a chat a few days ago but not extensive
been exchanging a few in character emails with the sidar though which is fun! Bobchillingworth: ah, the only civ I still need to meet
3:45 PM my scout was finally eaten, so I'll probably not contact Iskender for a while yet Square Leg they have a scout south of my lands
as of last turn
shall i point him south? Bobchillingworth: please, yeah
3:46 PM Square Leg ok - I'll mail him and suggest there are some big shoe'd people who tell bad jokes furtehr south Bobchillingworth: hah
we're less "Chuckles" and more "The Joker"
not that that makes us any more appealing....
3:47 PM Square Leg heh.
3:48 PM I must admit - the silence from the Sheaim is concerning me.
If you hear anythingI might be interested in feel free to tell me.
I'll do the same concerning the clan for you Bobchillingworth: that sounds good
3:49 PM Do you have an anti-PZ contigency plan?
obviously that's the main threat if the sheaim do attack you in the near future Square Leg I have a 2-fold plan
3:50 PM Bobchillingworth: cool. If you can handle them, then you should be fine Square Leg lets hope so
3:51 PM Fortunately for me the land between me and them isn't great
I wouldn't be surprised if they expand towards you
3:52 PM Bobchillingworth: I think they'd prioritize the Sepulcher, but who knows. I don't have any map knowledge of their region [I called this correctly, but it was just an educated guess]
3:53 PM Square Leg They don't need to settle too near me to get it. since it is probably nearer them then me.
especially if they grab it in the western half of a city which is likely
3:54 PM Bobchillingworth: Have you had much contact with Sareln?
I've found him to be very chatty
3:55 PM Square Leg We have had a few emails but nothing ground-breaking
do you consider me as chatty? Bobchillingworth: nope, since you don't hit me up on google talk every day :P Square Leg ha ha
3:56 PM I guess there isn't always something to talk about! Bobchillingworth: Indeed.
sounds like he's had some serious barb trouble
can't expand, can't improve his land Square Leg yeah - he mentioned some lizardmen in an email to me
3:57 PM - good news for us! Bobchillingworth: yeah, I get the impression he's got a constant stream of them coming in
well... good in the sense that it's nice to have opponents call behind, less good in that he isn't close to either of us and may lose territory to the Clan or Iskender
3:58 PM I'm not going to lose sleep over his position, though :P
3:59 PM Square Leg me either
he is quite a way away from us really Bobchillingworth: oh btw I found an island
4:00 PM Square Leg oh really Bobchillingworth: I think it's just a tiny one though, not Acheron's continent Square Leg i figured we were on a big land mass
oh ok Bobchillingworth: I hope to explore it... eventually
boats might help :P Square Leg more than 1 tile then.
4:01 PM boats?!? what are they? I don't think I have even built a boat in ffh! ha ha Bobchillingworth: point is, explore your coast if you haven't already... there may be some goodies a little ways off shore
4:03 PM Square Leg will do
4:04 PM Has Sareln mentioned the unique features he has seen to you?
no sign of the big tree yet Bobchillingworth: Big Tree is still AWOL- probably not on this land mass
4:05 PM let's see... Dragon Bones are north of the Clan
apparently in a distressingly rich area Square Leg Patria is to my west
on desert . Bobchillingworth: Sareln has Succuleus close by
and I think Odios
4:06 PM that might be it- I know the Tomb of Succuleus is his best feature Square Leg O Dio means Oh God in italian and is commonly used as a colloqueal phrase. Always makes me laugh when i see it. lol
4:07 PM Actually - Odio's Prison would be a really nice feature to have near a border city.
4:08 PM especially near the clan Bobchillingworth: Yeah- not sure where exactly it's located, though.
You were the one to explode the Sepulcher, yeah? Square Leg yeah Bobchillingworth: I'll tell you what I got from Bradeline's Well if you tell me what the Sepulcher gave you
4:10 PM Square Leg I think I've already told you - just an epic moster in that scorpion and then 85g [haha opps] Bobchillingworth: didn't know about the 85 g Square Leg the scorpion didn't attack the warrior that popped it and so i popped it again the next turn it gave the gold Bobchillingworth: that's about the weakest result possible Square Leg ah ok
4:11 PM yup! Bobchillingworth: Bradeline's gave me the Timor Mask Square Leg causes fear and give immunity right? Bobchillingworth: probably the best piece of the free equipments, but I would have prefered almost any of the other good results
yeah
4:12 PM it's nice for powerful, agile heros
automatically scatters enemies if you win a combat vs a stack Square Leg not in a city though right? Bobchillingworth: you can juggle hostiles that way, but I think it's random where they get moved to, so it's risky
no effect vs cities
would be great if it could move garrisons!
4:13 PM Square Leg and my golems ain't scared! grrr - air heads really!
4:14 PM I found the standing stones recently to your north. Beware if you have a scout nearby since there are a few lizards i'm running away from
2 move on hills has saved me 2 warriors and a scout already i think
4:16 PM Bobchillingworth: yeah I intend to expand to the standing stones soon-ish
4:19 PM Square Leg dude - you got eaten! guess i'm talking to a corpse now!
4:20 PM catch you later [somewhere, a village loses its seer...] Bobchillingworth: later
And my one chat with Iskender:
Quote:6:54 PM Iskender: hey Bob Bobchillingworth: howdy Iskender: we've just met in pbem5
6:55 PM i'll write a more elaborate greetings when i have some kind of inspiration
just saying hi now Bobchillingworth: haha
sure
I'm not going to bother with roleplaying Iskender: any dungeons to pop near your borders? Bobchillingworth: hehe []
6:56 PM Iskender: i've met a clan wolf rider on my way south Bobchillingworth: Combat II? Iskender: yes Bobchillingworth: yup, supposedly he's scouting
6:57 PM Iskender: that might be true. i saw him wading through the jungle
assumed he was hunting gorillas
6:59 PM Bobchillingworth: have you found many goblin forts?
7:00 PM Iskender: just one
with two spears only Bobchillingworth: According to Sareln, Tredje got approx. 5 archers from his worldspell
I've only found one fort as well [Why do I keep giving away free info? It is my way.] Iskender: power graph seems to confirm that
7:01 PM i haven't seen a single gob. archer yet though Bobchillingworth: SL spotted one, near serdoa
but that's the only confirmed sighting I've heard from anyone
7:04 PM Iskender: maybe he got those Weak archers from barb cities Bobchillingworth: possible, but I don't think that barb cites spawn for several more turns
7:06 PM It doesn't absolutely confirm it, but I think the answer is that we're on a terra map and likely half of the Clan's new units are in the "New World"
7:07 PM Iskender: new world... could be interesting Bobchillingworth: it would explain why out main continent is so crowded, yet the map size is "standard"
unless we're just on a high seas pangea or something
7:08 PM there's def. islands. One spotted to my south (not sure how large), another barely visible off Serdoa's coast Iskender: i also see a jungled tile of land to my west
sareln probably sees it too. it's uncoverd by mirror of heaven
7:09 PM maybe it's the same land with world wrap
acheron is probably there
7:10 PM Bobchillingworth: yeah
And finally the real meat of this post, my chat with Tredje:
Quote:Tredje: Hey Bobchillingworth: hey
8:33 PM Tredje: So, let's get down to business
You have an Archer and a Wolf Rider on your border
8:34 PM Bobchillingworth: ayup
8:35 PM Tredje: Unless we come to some form of agreement, their mission is to cause as much damage as possible to Balseraph lands Bobchillingworth: that sure sounds unfortunate! ["impertinence" is the name of the game here =) ] Tredje: Haha
8:36 PM It wasn't our initial plan. Your attempt to organize an effort to box us in forced out hand.
*our [Clearly a failed containment effort merits wasting your worldspell to bully a few tiles off your neighbor] Bobchillingworth: awww who leaked?
8:37 PM Tredje: Really?
Haha
I think you know that's not someting I'd share Bobchillingworth: yeah :P
8:38 PM well, I figured since I was already going to settle my first city toward you, if everyone else did as well it wouldn't make me look so bad & might give you someone else to rush
obviously that worked out well
8:39 PM Tredje: It would have been a great plan. If one or more players didn't reveal it.
I guess some people are more worried about the Clowns than the Clan. [Note how it starts taking him like four minutes to write 7 word responses. These sorts of chats can border on agonizing.] Bobchillingworth: it's a mad, mad world
8:40 PM so, clearly you want something, or you'd have declared. What's the score?
8:41 PM Tredje: 2 things.
8:43 PM The first is that you do not settle any more cities in our direction. (this includes the area north of the lakes)
The second is that we sign a longer NAP [truly a devastating concession!]
8:44 PM Bobchillingworth: how much of the land to my west / your east do you have scouted? I'm guessning all?
there's one more city I want to put in that area, but it shouldn't be contested territory
8:45 PM Tredje: We have scouted all the way to Serdoa
8:46 PM Bobchillingworth: right, I mean the land between you and me specifically
I want to put a city 1W of the Standing Stones
8:47 PM not immediatly, but eventually
8:49 PM Tredje: Yeah, that's going to be a problem
8:51 PM The Clan feels that the land north of the lakes is rightfully theirs. And while we could have agreed to a peaceful split earlier, you have forced us to use our World Spell earlier than we had intended.
Hence we want something in return. Bobchillingworth: well you didn't have to deploy the worldspell :P
8:52 PM not like the "boxing-in" plan actually worked
what if my city were to go 1SW of the stones instead?
my culture shouldn't threaten the cows or whatever unless you really delay settling them
8:53 PM since I don't intend to found a city there for quite a while
8:56 PM Tredje: I'm afraid I have to insist that you settle no city west of the Standing Stones. I could agree to you settling 1E of the Standing Stones. That would leave the river for us while you still get the mana and a decent city site.
8:57 PM Bobchillingworth: you'd still get pretty much all of the river if I settled on that hill
8:58 PM just one jungle tile down Tredje: In theory yes. But we would have your Creative culture to contend with.
8:59 PM Bobchillingworth: to put it in perspective, I plan to settle at least three other cities before that one
probably four, maybe five
surely you'll have a city & monument of your own in the area first?
9:00 PM I'm guessing you want to settle 1W of the raw mana node
9:03 PM Tredje: Actually no. we might decide to settle east of that. [Really, now.]
9:05 PM In either case I think I am offering you a fair deal. Considering the fact that you have been plotting against us, it is only reasonable that we want a small bufferzone between our two empires. [It's a fair deal, but not for that reason.]
9:06 PM Bobchillingworth: man you make it all sound so sinister. Tredje: Haha Bobchillingworth: alright, suppose I agree to settle 1E of the stones. What sort of NAP do you envision?
9:10 PM Tredje: I propose a NAP until T110.
9:11 PM Bobchillingworth: Okay. Any sort of cool-down?
9:13 PM Tredje: Not originally.
Is that something you would want?
9:15 PM Bobchillingworth: Not right now, we can add one later
a 61-turn NAP is already a good length
9:16 PM Tredje: I think so too. Lots of stuff can happen in that timespan Bobchillingworth: exactly. Well, I accept your offer.
9:17 PM And please don't take my mad machinations too personally. I'm hardly the first or only person to indulge in such activities in our game :P
I'll eventually have a couple spare cottons, if you'd like to trade one for one of your dye (or a similar resource)
9:18 PM Tredje: Haha. You need not worry about that. This is all a game. And to be honest, I think worse things will be said and done before this game is over.
That might be something the Clan is interested in. We will have to see once we have managed to settle more of our resources.
9:19 PM Bobchillingworth: sure.
9:20 PM btw, if you were to tell me who leaked the plot to you, I'd have someone to be angry at :D
and I know how to keep a secret Tredje: Hahaha. I'm not sure who else but you would be interested in that information =)
9:21 PM So it would be an easy secret to keep.
I'll have to decline, of course.
9:23 PM Bobchillingworth: fair enough
anything else? [I was being honest with my rationale for why he should tell me who leaked. Also the person who would find that info useful besides me would of course be the person who leaked in the first place- surely they'd like to know that Tredje can't keep info to himself. I didn't feel the need to correct his understanding here, though :P ]
9:24 PM Tredje: No, that's it really Bobchillingworth: k
9:28 PM Tredje: Just to summarize: The Balseraph won't settle any more cities in the Clan's direction. More specifically this means that the Balseraph will not settle closer than 1E of the Standing Stones. There will also be a NAP until T 110 between the Clan and the Balseraph. Bobchillingworth: right
oh, is this a secret NAP?
I don't care either way
I know people can be particular about this kind of stuff, tho
9:29 PM Tredje: Yes, I think that would be for the best.
9:30 PM Bobchillingworth: k
9:32 PM Tredje: Alright, I'm going to log off now. It's been a long day. Good night.
9:33 PM Bobchillingworth: night
So there you have it. By the way, this post took well over half-an-hour to format, write, and annotate. Unless there is some means to do an automatic "Find & Replace" of chat text which preserves the stupid special quotes this forum requires to get colors to display, don't expect any really large chats I have in the future to look this pretty unless I have a lot of time to clean them up.
Cool, I get to kill Orthus! I was actually hoping he'd show up- his axe seems like a real neat new toy for Keelyn to play with.
Unfortunately he showed up on the wrong side of my empire.
Here's the situation (pretend that this screen cap is my turn 50 report, too):
Orthus (circled in Real Man's pink) of course decided to attack my flatland expansion instead of my hill capital with higher cultural defences and a combat III, shock warrior defending. Mercifully he isn't very far away, so he won't have more than Combat I before he makes his first attack.
Also thankfully I have a substantial garrison in the city due to its proximity to the Clan, so I have four warriors defending, one with Combat I. I *should* be able to mob Orthus with the three survivors after he injures himself killing the Combat I guy. This picture is from the start of the turn, btw. I've cued up another warrior, who won't finish for a few more turns and is mostly there as either an emergency build or replacement. Next turn I'll also move my CIII Shock warrior and one other out of Jubilee toward Coombe. They should enter the city in three turns as my three workers build roads for them. Ideally I can finish this up as quickly as possible, so that I can get my workers back into place to start roads for my next expansion and have a settler escort garrison ready to roll.
Also, hah hah, I bet the Clan feel kind of dumb signing that NAP with me now
Thanks. Those color-coding must have taken you quite an effort. Hilarious how everything turned out to your favour (your evil plotting clearly benefited you!)- Orthus' appearance is certainly nail in the coffin
Guess no notable diplomatic event involving you would occur for some time with most of your agreements secured, until the midgets and burning corpses actively engage in cold war that is.
Also island? Hopefully SL and Iskender don't think there are like awesome city site with bunch of resources right across our coast or something. I still only see a single tile which is as small as back of a single [SIZE="1"]giant[/SIZE] turtle. 8)
The island to my south is def. more than one tile large (although only one tile is visible in the screencapture). It may be as large as two tiles! There's also a substantially larger isle off the far eastern coast / south of Serdoa.
And also oh my stars, stripes, & navy blue, what is this? It's another chat log! I had a conversation with Sareln which actually focused entirely on this game and contains some interesting info. You'll notice that we're both pretty free with information with each other; I think Sareln's and my internets personalities go well together, and I trust him in part due to our close relationship from PBEM 1. We also chatted frequently out of necessity in that game, and so our conversations here are a sort of natural outgrowth. Not that this will stop me from someday possibly declaring on him, although given the geography of the map I don't think that will happen for quite a long time
Anyway, without further ado:
Quote:10:45 PM Sareln: So, killed Orthus yet? :P Bobchillingworth: not quite :P Sareln: heh
2 more turns then? :P Bobchillingworth: three, I think
10:46 PM four at latest
10:48 PM Sareln: that's not too bad
Tredje won't have an opportunity to choke you hopefully
that would suck [I shared my concerns about the Clan with Sareln around the same time I first posted them in this thread.]
I've been hearing rumblings of Sheaim/Luchuirp conflict btw
have you heard anything about that?
10:49 PM Bobchillingworth: both have them have told me that they're worried about the other
but Serdoa has been really hard to get in touch with lately- I'm still waiting to hear back in a settling agreement thing we started talking about like two weeks ago
so no idea what he's thinking now
SL says he has a "2-step plan" to deal with him
whatever that means... :P [All the truth... this really is the extent of what I know about the SL / Serdoa mutual antagonism]
10:50 PM Sareln: step 1, wood golems
step 2, kill sheaim
step 3. Profit
clearly Bobchillingworth: with fire vulnerable wood golems? Sareln: unlikely :P
so yeah, SL has pumped at least 2 wood golems [Holy shit.]
10:51 PM I don't have sheaim graphs, but he's unlikely to have BW yet
so maybe SL wants to jump him before he can get PZ's? Bobchillingworth: he's had mining for a little while now
also holy crap wood golems already... Sareln: yeah
I had never thought about rushing masonry to use the engineer for popping techs [Very useful info here- I haven't been doing any C&D and had naturally assumed that he had just settled the GE, since that's what I always do as them when playing Luchuirp. One really nice thing about my chats with Sareln is that he's as bad at keeping non-confidential info to himself as I am, so I get to learn a lot of important Erebus news by proxy. The tech SL bulbed was Construction, btw- so he can build catapults and chain irrigation now too.]
10:52 PM Bobchillingworth: yeah
that engineer is usually best used to settle...
I almost always settle the first egineer, and use the second for Basium (free mana + iron) [I don't think that any leader can get Basium more quickly than Beeri / Garrim. They're not great choices otherwise though, since their AI is terrible if you switch civs, and golems don't provide angels.]
10:53 PM Sareln: that fast?
I suppose since you don't have to worry about a Clan AI coming at you with an axe
or a Sheaim Ai with a PZ rush
yeah... [what]
10:56 PM (in SP games of Luchuirp) Bobchillingworth: right right Sareln: I just realized that sounded confusing Bobchillingworth: Nah, I got you [smile & nod]
I haven't checked the city screen in a little while, have you been able to expand yet? [Last I checked as maybe a half-dozens turns ago, only Sareln and Serdoa hadn't expanded yet, and surely Serdoa has built his death mana city by now]
10:59 PM Sareln: No
Radio silence from the clan lead me to throw out a few more warriors Bobchillingworth: Def. be aware of them
11:00 PM for the time being, I have reasonably good reason to think that I'm safe. But Tredje has never mentioned you in any regard
at the same time... don't totally stunt your growth :P [still haven't told Sareln at this point the details of my conversation with Tredje besides that I did have a chat with him once]
11:01 PM Sareln: Yeeeah, I know Bobchillingworth: I know you don't need me to tell you that, but don't let the Clan or Iskender expand at your expense Sareln: the growth got stunted by the lizardman choke
and that shouldn't happen
it's just... delayed
and annoying
that and the Clan basically sat on a potential agreement for 6 turns before saying no has got me paranoid.
11:02 PM Bobchillingworth: they could be trying to bully some concessions out of you
that's actually what the case was with me... apparently
11:03 PM they were pretty minor in my case though. [Can't... keep... mouth... shut] Sareln: to bully concessions, don't you need the person being bullied to know that you want concessions? :P Bobchillingworth: only after you're on their border with an army so they can't prepare :P
11:04 PM it's also possible that Tredje just wants you to be perpetually nervous
orrrr that he's waiting to here from Mardoc
I think he clears all his major decisions with him
hear*
11:05 PM Sareln: if Tredje wants me perpetually nervous he's doing a good job of it. I'm at the point where I'm teching BW instead of KotE :P
that's how nervous we are. Bobchillingworth: getting BW before KotE is usually a good idea anyway Sareln: yes
11:06 PM Bobchillingworth: also, this is kind of early to be getting adept techs :P [Seriously, KotE before any economic techs?] Sareln: I merely state that to make the point of how tense things are on my side
yeah Bobchillingworth: although I intend to put them off for longer than I probably should [Astoundingly I have managed to not breathe a word to anyone about Gibbon, Esus, Esus-related paraphenalia, or Esus-accessories. From some of our previous conversations Sareln believes that I intend to bee-line Overlords, a conclusion he largely drew on his own and which I have no intention to disabuse him of.] Sareln: hmm
do you know if the clan has copper?
11:07 PM Bobchillingworth: nope. I don't have BW yet
I do know that they have horses in reach, but they surely aren't near trade or construction yet for chariots
err don't have mining either
11:08 PM Sareln: ah
I pulled in Mining a little while ago and I don't see any copper in the clan-lands I can see
also, based on C&D, they should be finding this out right about now. Bobchillingworth: it's possible I got theirs with Coombe View
11:09 PM I'll know fairly soon
11:10 PM Sareln: okay
I'll feel a lot better if they're copperless. Bobchillingworth: have you heard anything on people's religious ambitions? Sareln: not at all Bobchillingworth: same
11:11 PM Sareln: I've mostly been in close contact with Iskender, some small back and forth with the clan
Squareleg pops in from time to time
but other than that, it's you and Iskender I'm talking most with. Bobchillingworth: how'd you learn about the wood golems? :P
or did you say that was C & D
11:12 PM Sareln: Wood Golems came from Iskender [Iskender seems to be running a keen diplo game here. Guess he learned from PBEM 1.]
C&D is the clan just now being able to have mining
I summed all of the clan's commerce, subtracted out their capital culture
and assumed they ran 100% science the entire time.
11:13 PM if they got agriculture & calendar (and assuming the capital's are more or less equal, that's what they did)
then they just now have gotten the beakers to get both crafting and mining.
11:14 PM Bobchillingworth: they def got agriculture as their first tech
or close to it
which makes sense, of course
11:15 PM after mining I wouldn't be surprised if they go for myst, then masonry Sareln: yeah, mining to see the bronze, then myst and masonry to get the infrastructure up to do the unit thing. [I had told Sareln earlier that this is what I thought was the optimal normal build-order for the Clan; it's what I did in my game vs. Irgy. "Infrastructure" here means warrens, btw.] Bobchillingworth: exactly Sareln: why pop Call of the Horde then
11:16 PM they're bankrupting themselves with the unit maint. It feels like... Bobchillingworth: as best as I can tell, it was to get archers to threaten people (or at least me)
which is dumb for a few obvious reasons
11:17 PM they should know what the map looks like, though
that info certainly has a value
it's possible they wanted to try popping all the huts on any islands they got units at [At least I do have the sense to not actually bring up my *secret* NAP in any capacity.]
11:19 PM Sareln: hmm, what time approximately did you finish up your negotiations with the clan? (turnwise) the one where you say you'll not settle any closer to them... [Man, I don't even remember telling Sareln about the land concessions thing. I'm playing less Azula and more a goldfish, except goldfish actually have relatively well-developed memories.]
11:20 PM Bobchillingworth: three turns ago? Sareln: okay
then you weren't what they were "sorting out" (looking over the excuse for not getting back to me until today)
curious [MOST CURIOUS INDEED]
11:21 PM Bobchillingworth: btw, don't tell tredje (or anyone else) that I've discussed my relations with them with you
to the best of my knowledge it's not confidential
but still
I'd rather not upset them... at least not now :P [I'm not a total idiot, though. If I'm going to be honest with people, I intend to hold them accountable for keeping private chats private.] Sareln: of course
11:22 PM incidentally, I never mentioned any of my dealings with the clan ja?
wouldn't want people to think we were comparing notes no?
11:23 PM Bobchillingworth: haha of course
11:33 PM Sareln: I'm going to leave lab and head home. Hopefully when I open the turn there is not a horde of orcs waiting for me
[~46 mins pass~]
12:19 AM Sareln: Oh hey, a Goblin Archer on my borders. That's disappointing... []
12:22 AM Bobchillingworth: Dun dun dun...
fraid' it sounds like I called it
12:23 AM but it also sounds like you're prepared
12:24 AM Sareln: yeah, just not how I wanted my game to go
c'est la vie
The Clan continue to walk the goblin archer alongside his borders. He thinks they're scouting for a settler, possibly to ambush. Apparently they refuse to reply to his repeated diplomatic inquiries, and it sounds like he's getting desperate- he offered them a NAP tied to a resource gift, and there's still no response.
I also talked briefly with SL a few days ago about his plans regarding Serdoa. The first part of his "two step plan" is apparently to rush him using wood golems. He didn't say what the second part would be, except to hint that it wouldn't be so violent. This doesn't bode well for me, if he sticks Serdoa into some sort of iron-clad peace treaty which forces the Sheaim to attack me in order to expand. I'd like to get an NAP with Serdoa to head off that sort of potential dilemma, but he hasn't been on chat in a long while, and I already still have two emails (both about our future borders) which I'm waiting a reply on. Sigh. I'm open to suggestions on this front.
And so this update isn't all text, here's the latest picture from Orthus Watch, end of my latest turn:
Orthus has promoted to Combat I as anticipated. He'll attack at strength 7.2, while my top defender is 5.4 (strength 3 +20% from CI, 25% from fortification, 25% from city defence, and 10% from culture). Orthus has the odds, but should take some damage- the issue is how much. If he falls under 4 strength, I should be able to immediately mob him with the three remaining warriors from the city garrison. Anything higher is probably too risky- I might have to run some simulations in that case.
You can see that I'm bringing in two other warriors as reinforcements- annoyingly they were delayed a turn by a lizardman who forced one of my workers to cancel his segment of the road (the reptilian fiend has since perished against the walls of Jubilee). They'll reach the city before it's in any danger of actually falling, especially if Orthus wastes a turn "gathering courage" or whatever it is that barbs love to do in FFH. Hopefully he'll attack this turn though and I can finish him off next, so that I can get those two troops back home to prepare for settler escort duty.
Of course not having played PBEM before I have no idea how much you guys talk with each other, so if there are lot of irrelevant banters your decision to cut them out is definitely more prudent. 
![[Image: turn%2051-%20Orthus.JPG]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10367439/turn%2051-%20Orthus.JPG)
![[Image: turn%20before%20the%20great%20orthus%20assault.JPG]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10367439/turn%20before%20the%20great%20orthus%20assault.JPG)