[SPOILERS] Isabella of Carthage, starring Ellimist, SleepingMoogle, and Nicolae

[Ellimist]

Okay, Agriculture is in. BW is started. Worker is almost done. Warrior is still doing his counterclockwise tour of the island. Nothing new/exciting to report.

I'm thinking after the WB and size 2, we do a settler next. Any objections?

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Played. Of interest, Jkaen grew to size 2, probably did it off the corn tile. Do you remember what turn they gained points? That would tell us if they went fishing or ag first.

Demos says max food of 7, suggesting they went ag first, meaning they're not hammering out a workboat, which suggests they grew before going for a worker. Hmm, not the greatest of plans.

[Ellimist]

I haven't run a sim, but I'm thinking we should do the following for a basic framework.
After the worker completes, I'm thinking we should keep working the 1F2H tile for the workboat. Once the worker completes the farm, we'll switch to the farm until growth, then put the second citizen on the 1F2H tile. Once the WB completes, we'll have both citizens working 5F tiles, and we can either get a settler or grow while building another WB to explore with.

[Ellimist]

Turn 4, everybody's score was 33. On turn 5, Jkioan's score went to 39. Probably fishing.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I'd lobby for working the unimproved corn as we build the workboat, and grow to size 3 before starting the settler. We actually get the same amount of food and hammers, but it appears that we get more commerce.

Let's see...

Option 1: Ellimist's method
T11: F 0/22, WB 0/30
T12: F 1/22, WB 4/30
...
T15: F 4/22, WB 16/30 (Farm completes)
T16: F 10/22, WB 18/30
T17: F 16/22, WB 20/30
T18: F 0/24, WB 22/30 (Growth to S2, citizen onto 1/2 hill)
T19: F 5/24, WB 26/30
T20: F 10/24, WB 0/30 (Previous WB completes, citizen onto 5/0/2 fish)
T21: F 19/24, WB 2/30
T22: F 4/26, WB 4/30, switch to settler 0/100 (Growth to S3, citizen onto 1/3/1 hill)

Option 2: My method
T11: F 0/22, WB 0/30
T12: F 3/22, WB 2/30
...
T15: F 12/22m WB 8/30
T16: F 18/22, WB 10/30
T17: F 2/24, WB 12/30 (Growth to S2, citizen onto 1/2 hill)
T18: F 7/24, WB 16/30
T19: F 12/24, WB 20/30
T20: F 17/24, WB 24/30 (Mine completes, citizen onto 1/3/1 hill)
T21: F 22/24, WB 29/30
T22: F 3/26, Settler 4/100 (Growth to S3, citizen onto 5/0/2 fish)

My method therefore loses 1 food, but gains ~5c from working the 3/0/1 corn. Of more interest, my method dumps 4 overflow into the settler, which when combined a forest chop saves an entire turn on the settler (which is of more use).

Therefore, I'd lobby hard for working the corn from the start.

[Ellimist]

Sounds good.

[SleepingMoogle]

Hey guys, I'm back again. Hopefully I'll have something useful to contribute again in a few hours.

[Ellimist]

I'm feeling kinda silly for not building the WB first from the start. For three reasons, mostly. First, the WB would create boats instantly, no delay. Second, the improved fish tile gives more commerce than the farm. Third, the fish tile could be worked while building the worker and contribute during that time.

Sure, it "wastes" expansive, but I think if we'd run the numbers WB would have been better. Too late now.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Nope. Remember, the WB is 5/0/2, the corn is 6/0/1, my method trades a single food for 4c (not a great trade), but it dumps overflow directly onto the settler, which when combined with a chop makes the settler come out on T28. Going WB first trades 1f for 1c for several turns, not great. Not only that, but worker first let's me improve the unforested hills before BW.

Here's my microplan. Our goal is to get a settler out asap, so we can develop our gold city asap.
T11: F 0/22, WB 0/30
T12: F 3/22, WB 2/30
...
T15: F 12/22m WB 8/30 (Corn farm completes, citizen onto 6/0/1 tile)
T16: F 18/22, WB 10/30 (Worker moves 4, starts working on mine)
T17: F 2/24, WB 12/30 (Growth to S2, citizen onto 1/2 hill)
T18: F 7/24, WB 16/30
T19: F 12/24, WB 20/30
T20: F 17/24, WB 24/30 (Mine completes, citizen onto 1/3/1 hill)
T21: F 22/24, WB 29/30 (Worker moves 9, starts chopping)
T22: F 3/26, Settler 4/100 (Growth to S3, citizen onto 5/0/2 fish)
T23: Settler 17/100
T24: Settler 30/100 (chop completes)
T25: Settler 63/100 (Worker starts mining)
T26: Settler 76/100
T27: Settler 89/100
T28: Settler Completes, moves 7-8, mine completes, onto worker (2/60)
T29: Worker and settler moves 7, Worker 16/60
T30: Settler moves 4, worker puts 1 turn into chopping, worker 30/60
T31: New City , worker moves 8 and starts farming rice.

Now, the next question is, what is our tech path post BW? I wanted BW because I wanted to whip and chop, but whipping is inefficient without a granary, plus we have a ton of good tiles we don't want to whip off (grass hill mines, golds, etc). Chopping is fine on Normal speed. Therefore, do we go down the myst-poly line to win an early religion, or go wheel-pottery to get our expansive granaries up and running?

I'm inclined towards the religious path, because we already have most of the worker techs to improve this little island, and our overseas expansion is constrained by exploring (with WBs at first) instead of the ability to whip and hammer out settlers. Not only that, but it's Monarch difficulty, so maintenance is alot higher.

I'd therefore lobby for a pair of WBs after our 2nd worker, get the two exploring in different directions asap.

[Ellimist]

I like early pottery. We are expansive so we may as well get cheap granaries up and start whipping.

If we go Myst-poly and buddhism hasn't foumded yet, what do you think about going for the Oracle-Colossus? I know we aren't industrious but the industrious civ may not expect people to compete for it.