FfH Paring Questions

[Sareln]

Did any of this get implemented?

Other than some trait changes, I can't find any Doviello changes in the changelogs.

Their leaders have 2 (full) traits now. But no, I haven't had the opportunity to revisit them. They *really* want a new mechanic, not just a balancing of numbers IMO.

[Tatan]

They *really* want a new mechanic, not just a balancing of numbers IMO.

Ability to create wolf riders like the Clan?

Unit spawns from razing a city?

Potential to get a wolf whenever they kill a living unit?


...dragons?

[Amelia]

There are possibly three ways to go with this.

1) Make them a race of werewolves, and make Baron their national hero instead of a global hero. Then we can implement Tatan's suggestion of getting wolves whenever they kill a living unit.

2) Let Tundra be Plains for them. They are now a race of Tundra-born Barbarians.

3) Give them wolves as their mounted line. Wolf Riders -> Wolf Spear Slingers -> Wolf Knights. The War Machine is now an army of wolves carrying some huge mechanical machine.

[DaveV]

Here's a radical idea, not sure if it can be implemented.

Inspired by Krill's "Mob1 is mandatory" in the OOOO thread, I started thinking about how to nerf that promotion a bit (because I feel the same). My proposal: remove road bonus from units with mobility promotions. So they're still faster in combat, but you can't scoot them across friendly/neutral territory as fast (after Engineering, 1-move units with mobility would actually be slower on roads than non-mobility units).

[Amelia]

Then you have to implement that mobility ignores terrain movement, otherwise they'll be moving at 1 speed through forests.

[Thoth]

Here's a radical idea, not sure if it can be implemented.

Inspired by Krill's "Mob1 is mandatory" in the OOOO thread, I started thinking about how to nerf that promotion a bit (because I feel the same). My proposal: remove road bonus from units with mobility promotions. So they're still faster in combat, but you can't scoot them across friendly/neutral territory as fast (after Engineering, 1-move units with mobility would actually be slower on roads than non-mobility units).

Whoa down there mate.

Since when has Mob 1 been OP?

It's just fine as is for land units, and WW units really want it because they are SLOW. Drowns and Stygians can't be hasted (they aren't alive) so Mob 1 is the only way to give them some decent movement (though they can hitchhike on a ship if you have one handy with some cargo space.)

Taking Mob 1 as a promotion has an opportunity cost in that you didn't take C1 or something else. It's a tradeoff: Speed or strength.

Current balance looks ok to me.

[Bobchillingworth]

Seriously, where is all of this stuff coming from? OO being overpowered? Mobility being too strong? Water Walking as either too useful or not attractive enough? And yet I cannot seem to recall any EitB games here which demonstrated that even a single one of these suggested changes is at all necessary, and my extensive SP experience with the mod hasn't revealed any reason to impose the often dramatic changes people have been suggesting lately.



EitB is IMO very close to being a finished product. Fix the Basium tech bug, maybe make Sons of Asena cost as much as regular axes (meaning cheaper), perhaps fix the AI so that some of them are willing to adopt the Veil and Empy, and it's done. The thought of EitB with slow "mobility" units, stacks of water-walking T4 troops, and Overlord Cultists being turned into some bastard version of the Herald makes me grind my teeth.

[Selrahc]

EitB is IMO very close to being a finished product. Fix the Basium tech bug, maybe make Sons of Asena cost as much as regular axes (meaning cheaper), perhaps fix the AI so that some of them are willing to adopt the Veil and Empy, and it's done.

Still needs some work on tech costs for late era techs. Rage in particular is horrendously overcosted at the moment, being about three times the beakers of Mithril weapons. Pass through the Ether is also of questionable Beaker/Effectiveness ratio.

I'd also say, cut the free mobility promotion from Spiritual and cut the mage upgrade path from Savants.

[DaveV]

Since when has Mob 1 been OP?

Seriously, ... Mobility being too strong?

Maybe you guys do things differently, but I take Mobility I automatically on every single unit as soon as it's available. Speed kills. If it's the one right choice for the first promotion, then I think it is by definition overpowered. I thought the original intent of this mod was to balance things out to allow for more interesting choices.

And my proposed change would have absolutely no effect on water walkers.

[Tatan]

Maybe you guys do things differently, but I take Mobility I automatically on every single unit as soon as it's available. Speed kills. If it's the one right choice for the first promotion, then I think it is by definition overpowered. I thought the original intent of this mod was to balance things out to allow for more interesting choices.

And my proposed change would have absolutely no effect on water walkers.

I'm not quite sure I entirely agree that it needs to be changed... but if it does, I would rather give it a pre-req than mess with the promotion itself. Like, making Drill 1 needed for Mobility; then you would really need to weigh the benefits of getting that extra movement against, say, Shock, but the units that really need that extra movement will still find it within reach.