RBP7 - SPOILERS - Genghis Khan of Egypt

[waterbat]

what's the black line indicate?

[sunrise089]

what's the black line indicate?

Nothing, just a when the trend started. But it's pretty close to when pindicator switched into rage mode in the thread.

[waterbat]

heh - yeah i wanted to ask if the black line lined up with that diplo or the diplo about your missionaries.

[sunrise089]

heh - yeah i wanted to ask if the black line lined up with that diplo or the diplo about your missionaries.

The missionaries thing was actually very clever. Sadly Mali got overanxious and ruined it. I was traveling at had really limited civ access, but I did answer Mali in game by turning all of the WCs so they faced Rome and away from Mali. I thought that would get their attention, but sadly apparently it did not.

In general as I said earlier I'd have been willing to attack Rome had Rome kept totally neglecting their power. And, had I not settled my two border cities with China I'd have probably been able to send in 10-15 WCs right around now. The choice I made certainly could have been a mistake, but I meant what I said in the public thread: China has gone max production on probably military, settlers, and workers -> whip settlers -> (regrow via HG wonder) -> get top land area by a huge margin. Their tech fell behind the other peaceful civs early, but they're well positioned to explode (as is Parkin and Seven via the simple "grab 2x land via conquering" strategy).

Had I lost two more city spots to China in exchange for all of Rome that would have been a good trade. But taking say two Roman cities for me, while giving up my eastern border to China, leaves me equally strong, China stronger, and Rome a solid enemy.

Anyways, hopefully that provides some clue into how I'm approaching the diplo. One missed opportunity may be failing to negotiate an NAP with any of my neighbors. But since no one has really done that this game I fear doing so would create even more of a target versus staying silent.

[waterbat]

thanks for the post. Can argue with your approach - because of your starting land, you are going to attract attention. But it appears as though the this part of the world is relatively peaceful.

I also agree that given the vitrol already expressed for the diplo being done in the diplo thread - better to not be the first to start trying for NAPs.

It amazes me how little recon information this game gives you to work with geographically. Based on your minimap, you don't know the extent or content of your neighbors' land - so its hard to decide which (if any) of those options you laid out would be best. Can you pop out a spy or two to go lurking around?

What happens if Rome and Mali get into it? Do you plan to be ready to deploy and take advantage? Same goes for China - Mali ?

[sunrise089]

thanks for the post. Can argue with your approach - because of your starting land, you are going to attract attention. But it appears as though the this part of the world is relatively peaceful.

I also agree that given the vitrol already expressed for the diplo being done in the diplo thread - better to not be the first to start trying for NAPs.

It amazes me how little recon information this game gives you to work with geographically. Based on your minimap, you don't know the extent or content of your neighbors' land - so its hard to decide which (if any) of those options you laid out would be best. Can you pop out a spy or two to go lurking around?

What happens if Rome and Mali get into it? Do you plan to be ready to deploy and take advantage? Same goes for China - Mali ?

I actually made some effort at getting scouting knowledge. I popped a scout from a hurt and popped some maps as well. I've also built two manually. The problems are:

1) Big map.
2) Scouting units die easy.
3) Opportunity cost is high to spending too many hammers scouting.

If I had horse closer to my capital I'd have sent some WCs out scouting since they move fast and have survivability.

I think the people in the non-peaceful side of the world are being really silly if they're trickling in units. Choking makes tons of sense in 1v1 or TeamVTeam multiplayer, where a civ like Native America strongly gains from slowing down a civ like India. In a 1v1v1v1... type game though civ A choking civ B helps civ C. Even worse are little mini stacks taking each other out.

I know there has been some discussion of "it's an AW game, fight it out" in the diplo thread, but that's either disingenuous or a misunderstanding of effective AW play. Look at Krill in RBPBEM4a - he skirmished some early, but mainly he made sure his attack, when it came, would be overwhelmingly decisive. You could say the same thing about my successful though useless attack on Darrell. There's no point in spending 1,000 hammers to take one border city that will get culturally crushed.

I definitely value spies. There's some diplo penalty to using them probably, for instance I'd not send one into China's land right now even if I had one. There real value though is as sentries (plus some specific spy missions when the circumstances are right). If China attacks me it will probably be via Thwomp ("coincidentally" the city I was asked to move my scout away from). A spy sitting on the closest tile outside Chinese culture is an amazing early warning system, providing way more value than it costs in hammers. That's why spies are universally banned in real-time MP play. That said, Alphabet has an opportunity cost of roughly Monarchy+Priesthood (which I'm researching now), Construction, or half of Civil Service. Because of close borders I have to keep at least decent garrisons at three points anyways, and with decent mobility via War Chariots I've opted to forgo the benefits of spies for the time being. Alpha is down in the second tier of useful but not essential techs, with Metal Casting and Aesthetics+Literature (for the Epics).

If any of my neighbors were attacked in force I'd definitely consider getting involved. In that case it's all about weighing what I can take advantage versus any new vulnerabilities. It's probably too complex to spell out all the permutations in advance though.

[Bigger]

spies only cause diplo problems if they are caught. Make sure they are trained properly!!

[kalin]

I know there has been some discussion of "it's an AW game, fight it out" in the diplo thread, but that's either disingenuous or a misunderstanding of effective AW play.

+1

I was also wondering about people saying stuff like: "it's AW I better attack someone".

Kalin

[sunrise089]

Back into expansion mode. Two new cities, the last ones I have dotmapped, should go online over the next 5t, assuming both spots are still available. This will put me at 50% sustainable science, which is worrying. Still, with China apparently attacking England I feel I need to grab the last uncontested land out there. The question is whether 11 cities will make me competitive with my Fin neighbors long term...



This pig/iron city pindicator had me scout is a decent spot obviously, but it would be a real challenge for me to try to hold. It's adjacent to English culture and probably a pretty natural border plant for Mali and/or China depending on whose borders are closest. For me it would be something like 5 tiles due East of my existing borders, and with hostile culture on three sides. I don't see it being worth the trouble...

With the power spikes from all of my neighbors I'm having to devote an annoying amount of hammers towards military production. I'm running my empire heavily biased towards commerce (working 27 cottages vs 3 non-resource mines) so that means most of the hammers I do make have to go into units to stay remotely close in power. The bright side is getting Construction in 4.5t, but the downside is a slow crawl towards libraries, markets, and courthouses. At least I'll have a market soon for my Confucian shrine. My first great scientist is about 25t out, with the second about 5t later before adjusting for the now higher GPerson cost. Both will probably go towards academies in Luxor and Venlazzo.



In case anyone wonders whether I'm missing an opportunity by not attacking China while their attention may be elsewhere, I have visibility on their border city. 2 axes, 2 spears, and an archer on a hill. I could probably put 10 units in the field while still keeping garrisons in my Mali and Roman border cities (but leaving no reserves to defend against a large attack) but without catapults (Construction due in 2t...can't come soon enough!) that's not a good plan.

[sunrise089]