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[scooter]

It's a bit of a spoiler as to why, but I'm of the opposite opinion--being last in the turn order does not balance out the number 1 pick in the snake.

I know the leader/civ options and I disagree that top pick is drastically better, but regardless of my opinion, there is an alternative that the top 2 teams in the turn order may not love, but it's the fairest way. We could re-randomize the turn order and use my suggestion for determining snake pick - that way it's all random and it's remotely fair, as opposed to now where everyone knows their turn order position and it's prejudicing them to be either in favor or against this idea. It's certainly far more fair than some team nailing top in the turn order AND top in the snake pick. That's the scenario I'm trying to avoid because it's unfair to the unlucky team. Re-randomizing and using my suggestion isn't 100% balanced, but it's far more so than randomizing both.

[Catwalk]

Did we end up with Khmer elephants allowed?

scooter, rerolling the turn order would hardly be fair. That said, TEAM seems to be supporting your proposal in spite of us being #2 in the turn order.

[scooter]

scooter, rerolling the turn order would hardly be fair. That said, TEAM seems to be supporting your proposal in spite of us being #2 in the turn order.

I agree it's not really fair, but somehow we're going to end up in an unfair situation here so I'm trying to minimize the unfairness . The idea of deciding a turn order before setting are locked in isn't fair to begin with, so this is just a weird situation.

(Not trying to be bad here by the way, just trying to help.)

[Catwalk]

I agree rolling the turn order a bit soon was unfortunate, but I don't think it makes much difference. Re-rolling is a much bigger can of worms than trying to settle the discussion as is. I do hope that your proposal will be accepted, it's a fairly minor concession for going later in the turn order. IMO it should be implemented in all PBEM games. I also liked the previous suggestions of either gold compensation or slightly better starts, but this one works too and is simpler. Should we call for teams to cast votes on this?

[pindicator]

I agree rolling the turn order a bit soon was unfortunate, but I don't think it makes much difference. Re-rolling is a much bigger can of worms than trying to settle the discussion as is. I do hope that your proposal will be accepted, it's a fairly minor concession for going later in the turn order. IMO it should be implemented in all PBEM games. I also liked the previous suggestions of either gold compensation or slightly better starts, but this one works too and is simpler. Should we call for teams to cast votes on this?

Rolling order is arbitrary. Settling rules shouldn't be. I don't think we should allow Commodore's initial roll to stand since it was done before settings. Yes, my team is the top spot (and yes I've been telling them in our thread that top spot and last to pick is far better IMO than a 20% chance at getting first pick). But the only way to move forward without the perception of bias is to make Commodore's initial turn order not count and make no turn order rolled valid until settings are final.

[novice]

Well, is a reroll of turn order necessary if everybody supports scooter's suggestion? (I personally do support it, fwiw.)

(Third in proposed turn order - does that make me unbiased? )

[Catwalk]

Well, is a reroll of turn order necessary if everybody supports scooter's suggestion? (I personally do support it, fwiw.)

(Third in proposed turn order - does that make me unbiased? )

+1, the snake order pick is the only thing that can be biased by the turn order.

[Gaspar]

+1.

[pindicator]

Well, is a reroll of turn order necessary if everybody supports scooter's suggestion? (I personally do support it, fwiw.)

(Third in proposed turn order - does that make me unbiased? )

Doesn't scooter's suggestion include a reroll of turn order?

[Catwalk]

Yeah, I meant his original proposal to make snake order pick dependent on turn order.