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Poll: Which civ/leader pairing should we take?
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Huayna (Fin/Ind) of Khmer (Hunting/Mining, Ballista Elephant, Baray)
18.18%
6 18.18%
Huayna (Fin/Ind) of India (Mysticism/Mining, Fast Worker, Mausoleum)
6.06%
2 6.06%
Huayna (Fin/Ind) of Zulu (Hunting/Agriculture, Impi, Ikhanda)
9.09%
3 9.09%
Huayna (Fin/Ind) of Egypt (Agriculture/Wheel, War Chariot, Obelisk)
12.12%
4 12.12%
Ragnar (Fin/Agg) of Zulu (Hunting/Agriculture, Impi, Ikhanda)
12.12%
4 12.12%
Willem (Fin/Cre) of Khmer (Hunting/Mining, Ballista Elephant, Baray)
12.12%
4 12.12%
Willem (Fin/Cre) of India (Mysticism/Mining, Fast Worker, Mausoleum)
6.06%
2 6.06%
Willem (Fin/Cre) of Zulu (Hunting/Agriculture, Impi, Ikhanda)
6.06%
2 6.06%
Willem (Fin/Cre) of Egypt (Agriculture/Wheel, War Chariot, Obelisk)
12.12%
4 12.12%
Something else (please specify below)
6.06%
2 6.06%
Total 33 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

 
Poll: Civ/leader pairing

Good job on taking the highest possible position. I was thinking about it last night and realised I didn't really want 5-6 after all. So I'm happy with how things turned out. Means it was entirely pointless doing this whole extra process though, since we just ended up with the same order. lol

I still very seriously think we should pick Khmer, not just because of all the other benefits (guaranteed Ivory, Hunting to hook up Deer + Ivory and get to AH quick, Mining to get to BW quick)... but because the UU continues to be useful far into the future. So far we've only been talking about the early game, where Elephants are certainly very strong units. However, a key point that's been missed is that Elephants continue to be strong into the age of Knights and beyond. Having the only Elephants in the game will be an amazing way for us to defend ourselves against Knight stacks - because don't forget, our UU also targets mounted units first outside cities! wink

So Ballista Elephants are not only handy if we want to go on an offensive campaign, but they pretty much guarantee our defensive security through a large part of the mid-game (Construction through to Gunpowder/Rifling/Military Tradition). The sheer length of time that our UU would be useful for is immense. smile

Of course, I'm reasonably sure that other teams also realise this, and that Khmer will be picked by someone else before us. But if it's not, we'd be silly not to take it. wink

(Oh, and Inca are usually good, but their starting techs are anti-synergistic with our land, so we'd be off to a much slower start if we picked them.)
Lord Parkin
Past games: Pitboss 4 | Pitboss 7 | Pitboss 14Pitboss 18 | Pitboss 20 | Pitboss 21
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Lord Parkin Wrote:don't forget, our UU also targets mounted units first outside cities! wink


The ability is ... non existence.
Elephant is defensive not attacking unit so:
- chances he will be attacking two times more mobile other mounted units are slim to the best.
- But even if he would, the abilty does't matter either, because the targeted mounted units usualy operates alone and ... there will be no other than mounted targets
- The only slim chance our Elephant will be attacking mounted units covered by other units is during sieging cities, ... but our ability states in combat outside cities.

Lord Parkin Wrote:Of course, I'm reasonably sure that other teams also realise this, and that Khmer will be picked by someone else before us

I think you strongly underestimate them. wink
Khmer is weak civ and even the fact they are guaranted Ivory don't make it any near such civs as India, Inca, or even Egypt.

Most teams will probaly choose civs with very early UU or UB to leverage it from the start when it counts most.

Lord Parkin Wrote:Oh, and Inca are usually good, but their starting techs are anti-synergistic with our land, so we'd be off to a much slower start if we picked them.)

The start will be a little slower with Inca, and nontheless we will catch up the moment we decide to go for Oracle, bacause we will need to discover Mysticism for that, and Inca comes with this tech.
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Mortius Wrote:The ability is ... non existence.
Elephant is defensive not attacking unit so:
- chances he will be attacking two times more mobile other mounted units are slim to the best.
When defending, you can use your roads. Your enemy cannot. In this case, Elephants are at least as fast (if not faster than) other mounted units. Thus, they are excellent for defence.

Mortius Wrote:- But even if he would, the abilty does't matter either, because the targeted mounted units usualy operates alone and ... there will be no other than mounted targets
Because people never mix stacks of units? I point you towards, for one example of many, the end of PB7 in Mackseven's thread.

Mortius Wrote:I think you strongly underestimate them. wink
Khmer is weak civ and even the fact they are guaranted Ivory don't make it any near such civs as India, Inca, or even Egypt.

Most teams will probaly choose civs with very early UU or UB to leverage it from the start when it counts most.
I guess we'll see. smile

As I've said before, I agree that in a normal game Khmer isn't interesting. With the specific weird rules here where only one civ can build Elephants EVER, and they are guaranteed to be able to build them when the time comes, that gives them a huge leg up. (Not to mention another slight bonus - guaranteed double production speed on the Statue of Zeus, for what it's worth.)

Mortius Wrote:The start will be a little slower with Inca, and nontheless we will catch up the moment we decide to go for Oracle, bacause we will need to discover Mysticism for that, and Inca comes with this tech.
There are a certain subset of techs required before a (sensible) Oracle grab: Worker techs (AH, Mining, BW, Wheel, Pottery, Hunting here, usually Agri, sometimes Fishing) and then religious techs (Mysticism, Meditation/Polytheism, Priesthood). A Mysticism start does not put you closer to a (sensible) Oracle grab, because you still need to research the other techs first. Unless you're making a beeline at the expense of everything else (which is usually highly ill-advised), starting techs are pretty much irrelevant for an Oracle grab.
Lord Parkin
Past games: Pitboss 4 | Pitboss 7 | Pitboss 14Pitboss 18 | Pitboss 20 | Pitboss 21
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Lord Parkin Wrote:Because people never mix stacks of units? I point you towards, for one example of many, the end of PB7 in Mackseven's thread.

LP, we are not playing against AIs smile
Other teams will know about our Special Ability bow, and even for that very reason they will not bother covering mounted units with anything, even if for some reasons they wanted to do it before smile

Lord Parkin Wrote:(Not to mention another slight bonus - guaranteed double production speed on the Statue of Zeus, for what it's worth.)

Not much, I am afraid smile
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Inca was picked smile

I think we can go Khmer 1st pick, just for fun elephant:
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