Huayna Capac of Khmer

[Joshua]

Looks like a good start, there's nothing really more for me to add lol. I'm assuming the consensus is to move to the plains hill above the river to settle? Wish the game would get started already.

[Lord Parkin]

Looks like a good start, there's nothing really more for me to add lol. I'm assuming the consensus is to move to the plains hill above the river to settle? Wish the game would get started already.

Yep, planning on settling on the plains-hill above the Sheep.

Hope it'll get started soon too. Map is just receiving some final tweaks apparently.

[HitAnyKey]

I don't have time to log in right now (I see Elkad has already done so).
As for the first turn, I can play it in the morning from the airport as I'm flying home tomorrow. Or if someone else wants to do it, that's fine. I just finished packing and will be going to bed in a few, since I need to be at the airport in 5 hours.

[Elkad]

We are up already. Guess I'll make the first move.

And we have Ivory!

[Lord Parkin]

Sounds good. Let us know what the land looks like after you move the Warrior and Scout. We almost certainly want the Settler on the plains-hill 1N of the Sheep, but may as well move the other units first to check there's nothing spectacular hiding just to the west or north.

[Lord Parkin]

Didn't notice you'd edited your post until now.

I suggest we continue the discussion in this thread:

http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showt...php?t=5955

[Mortius]

I don't know who wrote the signs, sugesting "10-11t pre-mine the grass hill", and "12t start pasturing the Sheep" - but he/she may be right.

I wouldn't be myself if I didn't test this variant

Ok I did two sims one with the early Sheep, and one with the early Deer.

[SIZE="4"]Early Deer:[/SIZE]

[SIZE="4"]Early Sheep[/SIZE]

[SIZE="4"]Early Deer vs Early Sheep - excel format[/SIZE]


The outcome is very similiar. At the end the difference is:

Deer (+1 food, + 5 hammers) vs Sheep (+ 5 beakers)

BTW: With only 5 forests to chop it makes no sense to spare the last one for Oracle. I choped it and I speed everything up by 2 turns (2 turns faster third worker, 2 turns faster second settler, and 2 turns faster Stonehenge).


The new record for Stonehenge => 45 turn (with 2 settlers and 3 workers)
The second Settler => 44

It means we would have 3 cities, 3 workers and the Stonehenge, all on turn 45

[Lord Parkin]

I wrote the signs... was just musing. That was how I did it in many of my own sims.

I don't see the +5 hammers for the Deer case in your spreadsheet...?

I also don't understand the "16 gold..." in the column underneath the founding of the second city. Do you mean saved gold? If so, I don't see how you get 16 in one turn.

On the whole that looks pretty good. T45 seems pretty late for Stonehenge... guess we'll have to hope Gillette doesn't get any ideas. It's a cheap wonder for anyone who wants to try... fortunately only one of our opponents is likely to be interested.

One other thing is that it seems unlikely that we'd land the Oracle by T60 with this plan and tech rate. Perhaps we need to consider getting cottages sooner? Would also give the Workers something to do; I found them rather lacking in useful things to do in my own sims fairly early on. The other option is not to build so many Workers, but that seems backwards; the problem is with the lack of tech, not the number of Workers.

[Mortius]

I don't see the +5 hammers for the Deer case in your spreadsheet...?

It's that 5 hammers saving in baracks.

I also don't understand the "16 gold..." in the column underneath the founding of the second city. Do you mean saved gold? If so, I don't see how you get 16 in one turn.

When we have two cities, it's better to go with binary science (100%/0%), we won't loose beakers that way (due to rounding). I get +1 gold on turn 37 discovering fishing with 80% science, and + 15 gold going 0% science on the next turn. (we have a second city and trade routes gold by then

On the whole that looks pretty good. T45 seems pretty late for Stonehenge... guess we'll have to hope Gillette doesn't get any ideas. It's a cheap wonder for anyone who wants to try... fortunately only one of our opponents is likely to be interested.

LP, 45 turn for Stonehenge is incredible early if you want to build it without hampering the growth (for the more important Oracle grab), and without the starting Mystycism. How can you do it faster? We can't discover Mystisism before (Animal Husbandry, Bronze Working, Wheel, and Fishing or Agriculture for the second city). The good news here is the fact, that Team Gillette (our only competitor for Stonehenge), has even longer research path to Mysticism (starting with Fishing, Hunting).
But all of this doesn't matter, becasue I am fairly sure Team Gillette doesn't even consider chasing Stonehenge. Pottery is the key tech for them (they are expansive), and I don't see them prioritising Mysticism over AH, BW, Wheel, Pottery, Agriculture, or even Writting.
If you are them, would you even consider chasing the Stonehenge, with crappy starting techs, without Mysticims, but with an Industrious oponent known for his ... cautious approach to wonders building. For them it's a losing strategy
I am fairly sure we can build the Stonehenge even on turn 60 without problems. It's the Oracle, we need to focus on.

One other thing is that it seems unlikely that we'd land the Oracle by T60 with this plan and tech rate.

Do you count the income from the second and the third or even the forth city?

Perhaps we need to consider getting cottages sooner?

The only way we can have Pottery sooner, is by delaying Mysticism and the Stonehenge.

Would also give the Workers something to do; I found them rather lacking in useful things to do in my own sims fairly early on.

Becasue we don't sim the development of our second and third city. If you take that into account (roads, tiles upgrades, chops) you would see we have plenty to do with our workers.

[Lord Parkin]

I guess at least we're not investing into Stonehenge before T44 with this plan, so if it by some weird chance falls before then, we don't lose much (aside from time teching Mysticism).

Not against Stonehenge, nor the plan in general, just playing devil's advocate.

One other thing I'm not sure about is the whipping... that leaves us at size 2 with 7-8 turns required to regrow to size 4. That's 7-8 turns we can't build Settlers or Workers for, though I suppose we can always whip again after that. However, whipping also costs us in commerce, when we're dearly in need of speedy tech to get to Pottery and Priesthood quickly.

Will have to sim out further to determine roughly what we can expect for Oracle times with and without whipping. Maybe best to do that after we know more about the terrain and our potential 2nd/3rd/4th city sites though... right now quite a lot depends on the land we have available for settling.

At least we have a pretty solid general plan for at least 20-30 turns, so there's no need to worry too much right now. Though we should make a decision on improving Deer first vs Sheep first. I managed to get slightly more commerce out by improving the Sheep first and only working that tile with the first citizen, though that delayed our second Warrior by quite a few turns - probably not so desirable.