Do they know that we know that they know that we know that they know ...?

[pling]

Novice suggested I try & figure out TEAM's builds, so here's what I've got so far - it kinda falls over at the end so if anyone has ideas that'd be neat

Code:

0  5f+1h    4fh            0
1  5f+1h    8fh            0
2  5f+1h    12fh            0
3  4f+3h    17fh            0
4  4f+3h    23fh            0
5  4f+3h    28fh            0
6  4f+3h    33fh            0
7  4f+3h    38fh            0
8  4f+3h    43fh            0
9  4f+3h    48fh            0
10 4f+3h    53fh            0
11 4f+3h    58fh            0
12 5f+1h    62fh WORKER (2 spare)    0
13 5f+1h    3            3
14 5f+1h    4            6
15 5f+1h    5            9
16 5f+1h    6            12
17 6f+3h    9            16
18 6f+3h    12            20
19 6f+3h    15 WARRIOR        24 GROW (2 spare)
20 9f+3h    3            7
21 9f+3h    6            12
22 11f+3h    9            19
23 11f+3h    12 not finished, switch    26 GROW (2 spare)
24 14f+3h    11fh            2
25 14f+3h    22fh            2
26 14f+3h    33fh            2
27 15f+3h    45fh            2
28 15f+3h    57fh            2
29 15f+3h    69fh            2
30 15f+3h    81fh            2
31 15f+3h    93fh            2
32 15f+3h    105fh SETTLER (5 spare)    2
33 12f+6h    WARRIOR (8 spare)    8
34 12f+6h    NOTHING            NOTHING
35 18f+8h    20fh or 14h?        8 or 14 SETTLE
36 18f+8h    32fh or 20h?        8 or 20
37        44fh or 26h?        8 or 26 (would grow, didn't)
38         56fh or 32h?        8 or 32

So I think they have 1 Worker, 2 Warriors, 1 Settler (used). The bit that falls over is after they've settled, coz it's hard to figure out which city has what tiles - I've kinda assumed that maybe their cap keeps at 12f+6h. We know from novice's poking around that they had completed something EOT37. Possibly chop worker, which gives 14 overflow (44fh plus 30h = 74, so 14 spare). T38 add 6 hammers get a Warrior plus 5 overflow, and chop a chariot out of the new city? Any thoughts?

(And a note to self here for future reference - TEAM don't have Axes, they have Vultures.)

[pling]

Pirates got a tech, and I believe this was The Wheel. The alternative is that they got a 2k tech, which would have to be Hunting, and TEAM built a Warrior at the same time. I can disambiguate this with TEAM's graphs

Had a quick look at the graphs - TEAM did not get a power increase that turn, must've been all Pirates. So 6k for TEAM this turn - Vulture or Chariot+Warrior.

[plako]

I also took a look at figures and either Vulture or Warrior+Chariot makes most sense. They also got a tech that could be Fishing or Mystisicm. Arcehry doesn't seem very likely. It is probably Fishing, if the are taking a shot at GLH and settled a spot that is pretty similar to our coastal spot.

edit. Their sabotage inprovement cost is still 0 that indicates either something cheap finished with overflow or something a bit more expensive with overflow+chop. Fits well for molitary builds considered.

[pling]

Tech could be Pottery, that's the one I'd guess - high GNP coz they have pre-reqs for it, plus it's a sensible-ish one to get.

[pling]

As discussed above, TEAM (probably) had 6k rise in power and a new tech. Possibilities to account for the power rise are: Archery, Vulture or Chariot+Warrior with the last of those sounding most sensible. Possibilities for the tech (if not Archery) are Fishing or Mysticism (on looking again I don't think they've had enough beakers since the last tech to get Pottery).

To do list for me, this evening: Check TEAM's power and GNP graphs and see if we get known civ bonuses when researching Pottery or Fishing.

Other news:

Gillette settled a new city, 9 tiles of land.

Menagerie settled a new city, 7 tiles of land.

[pling]

Thanks for grabbing those screenshots for me, plako! I do hope you didn't think I was ordering someone else to do it though, that to-do list was intended as a note to myself so I didn't forget what I needed to do to sort out what was going on

TEAM definitely got all 6k power, none of it spare for Menagerie or anyone else. Their GNP is also what I was assuming it was for T37 - which leaves them with insufficient beakers for having researched Pottery.

Our GNPs for Pottery & Fishing are doing my head in though They're identical to what I get if I load up the latest sandbox and change research. Which I think means that TEAM have not researched either of those (as they don't have them in the sandbox, so we aren't getting known civs bonuses on them in that). I'd feel a lot happier if I could break the numbers down, but that may have to wait for another day I suspect what I'm missing is maintenance (as my numbers come out too high) but I'm not sure how the -2.92 (what maintenance is Bloody Mary, for instance) is applied to GNP if it is.

Anyway. I think the two possible techs that TEAM can have researched are Mysticism or Archery, and I'm not sure how I can disambiguate that

[novice]

They could have had a larger beaker output than their GNP indicates if they've been running deficit research.

[pling]

They could have had a larger beaker output than their GNP indicates if they've been running deficit research.

Ah, yeah, I shouldn't rely on beaker counts too much.

Doing this empirically:

If I give Pottery to TEAM in the sandbox, we have a GNP of 25 when researching Pottery. This isn't the GNP in the real game, so TEAM do not have Pottery. (Caveat, Gillette might not have Pottery either, that's a previous assumption).

If I give Fishing to TEAM in the sandbox, we have a GNP of 22, this isn't the case in the real game thus TEAM do not have Fishing.

Given plako reports that TEAM finished a build T38 as well as T37 they can either have built worker, settler, military or a barracks. I think they had 14 overflow after finishing a Worker T37, plus probably 6 from tiles. To chop a Worker they'd need 2 forests (doable with planning), to chop a Settler more (and only 2 workers so can't do that). Military sounds most sensible. So that would use up some of the 6k power (as would a barracks), so TEAM are very unlikely to have Archery.

Which pretty much leaves Mysticism or Masonry (and Masonry requires deficit research to give more beakers than I've accounted for).

[novice]

Sounds like TEAM are planning to culture bomb us with a holy city.

Btw we should probably put our EPs on Pirates.

[novice]

Espionage costs and power graph for this turn.





Forgot to note the turn number, though.