Do they know that we know that they know that we know that they know ...?

[pling]

Most of the news of the turn is above, and I still don't know where or what that power increase is. In fact the graph has left me with a bit of a conundrum ... I can see on TEAM's line that they go:

35k ->(whip, archer)-> 37k ->(warrior)-> 39k ->(disband warrior)-> 37k ->(pop)-> 38k.

(For reference our power is at 35k then goes up to 36k during those turns, so you can judge it from that.)

So far so good. Except from the demos their power must be either 40k or 45k now, and not 38k The top power is 45k, bottom power is 25k (Gillette), average is 34,500. Total is therefore 138k, and the middle two must add up to 68k. Pirates power remained the same at 28k (because these numbers were the same before and after the Pirates played). So the other one must be 40k. Damned if I know how that can work out, maybe some of TEAM's power increase will show up later in the graphs? Does anyone know?

----

Other news of the turn: Gillette grew their capital to size 5.

TEAM got a tech. This probably has no soldier points - it only took them 3 turns to research and Sailing is 143 beakers which seems unlikely in 3 turns if the previous tech took 6 turns. So possibilities are Fishing, Mysticism, Masonry, Writing. I've tentatively got them down as getting Pottery last time (took 6 turns, had no soldier points). I'm leaning towards Fishing as the start of a GLH run for this tech. But there's really nothing to nail it down.

[pling]

Power graph looks identical after TEAM have played, so I'm totally confused. We should get Pirates graphs this turn (not sure if it's before or after we end turn), so perhaps that'll help sort it out.

TEAM have 21-ish hammers in something in their capital. Pop up by 1, land by 9 (obviously, we can see it). No power changes.

I'm now wondering if that last tech was Myst, and they're doing a religion run now to found inconveniently next to our borders?

[novice]

(Originally posted by Pling)

Coz we've not got the old threads at the moment, here's a brief summary of what's in my C&D spreadsheet as of the current turn (T48 - data complete up to T47).

TEAM

WAR!

• Cities:
  • capital @ size 1
    
  • 1 @ size 3
    
  • 1 newly planted T48 @ size 1
• Army: 3 Warriors, 2 Archers. NOTE: as of T47 they have 2k or 7k more power I haven't been able to assign
  
• Techs: Hunting, Mining, Myst?, Agri, Archer, Wheel, Pottery?, AH, BW

Menagerie

At war with Pirates.

• Cities:
  • capital @ size 3
    
  • 1 @ size 1
    
  • possibly another city, they got 2 new pop on T48
• Army: 4 Warriors, 1 Chariot NOTE: as of T47 they have 10k or 5k more power I haven't been able to assign
  
• Infra: Barracks
  
• Wonders: Stonehenge
  
• Techs: Hunting, Mining, Myst, Agri?, Wheel, AH, BW. Researched something T48 that I don't know what it is yet

Gillette

• Cities:
  • capital @ size 5
    
  • 1 @ size 2
• Army: 2 Warriors (spot who has the NAPs :rolleyes: )
  
• Techs: Fishing, Hunting, Mining, Wheel, Pottery, AH, BW. Researched something T48 that I don't know what it is yet

Pirates

At war with Menagerie.

• Cities:
  • capital @ size 2
    
  • 1 @ size 2
    
  • 1 @ size 1
    
  • They got 1 pop on T48, don't yet know if that's a new city or one of those growing.
• Army: 4 Quechua
  
• Techs: Hunting?, Mining, Myst, Agri, Wheel, AH, BW.

[pling]

Thanks for copying that post across, novice

----

This is mostly a placeholder, because I'm struggling to sort the power out after a couple of beers

Things I currently know:

Menagerie grew their capital to size 4 & their other city to size 2. (This is 1k power) They also got a tech, I haven't figured out anything about that tech yet.

Pirates grew either their capital or their second city to size 3. (No power change for that)

Gillette got a tech, with no soldier points. Took them 6 turns, and I haven't really put much thought into what it is yet.

As discussed before, TEAM planted their new city (no soldier points).

----

Things that are doing my head in currently:

I have changed my spreadsheet to match what Pirates power graph looks like so T43 is now different. Basically I have given Pirates 2k more power there (30k) and Menagerie 2k less. That effectively transfers a Warrior from Menagerie to Pirates, but I need to see if that's possible. Then to match the graphs/demos Pirates got 7k this turn but I'm not sure what to make that. However this also means that Menagerie got 12k power T47 and 7k this turn. And, er, that's a lot of power. 2 Axes last turn and an Axe this turn and a no soldier point tech does spring to mind as a possibility which should scare Pirates But I want to go through it again when the brain is firing on all cylinders Particularly as Menagerie have only got 2 cities ...

[pling]

Ok, some more thoughts on the power etc.

From the graphs, Pirates power went from 23k to 30k on T43, and then from 30k to 37k on T48.

I now believe they researched Archery on T43 (not Hunting) and built two archers T48 (or perhaps an Axe, but I'm going for Archers).

I believe that means Menagerie didn't build a Chariot T43 instead they built another Warrior. They then built two axes T47, and one T48. It's possible that this was them researching Archery instead, but I think the Axe is more plausible.

Whatever those power increases are, that looks like a hot war over there on the other side of the world.

----

Techs were finished by both Gillette and Menagerie this turn.

Gillette's tech had no soldier points, and took them 6 turns. Possibilities are Agri, Myst, Masonry, Writing. Writing feels like it should've taken them longer (their GNP is much like ours, which means they're getting a few more beakers a turn, but I wouldn't've thought the ~30/turn necessary to get a 171 beaker tech in 6 turns). Masonry feels weird, wouldn't you go up via the religions first just to hopefully get one and to get the double pre-req for Masonry if you were doing a pyramids run? So Agri or Myst. Gonna plump for Agri for now, but keep in mind the other possibilities.

Menagerie also got a tech, it also had no soldier points (or was Archery as discussed above). Their last tech was on T46 and I guess at Agri for that one. So two turns and another tech ... gotta be something small here (which is partly why Archery seems implausible). Fishing, perhaps?

[pling]

Revised T48 to account for my changing of mind about what happened on T43:

TEAM

WAR!

• Cities:
  • capital @ size 3 (Pitboss3)
    
  • 1 @ size 1
    
  • 1 newly planted T48 @ size 1 (Losing)
• Army: 3 Warriors, 2 Archers. We can see 1 Warrior, 1 Archer. We also know 1 Warrior is to the S of us.
  
• Techs: Hunting, Mining, Myst?, Agri, Archer, Wheel, Pottery?, AH, BW

Menagerie

At war with Pirates.

• Cities:
  • capital @ size 4
    
  • 1 @ size 2
• Army: 5 Warriors, 3 Axes
  
• Infra: Barracks
  
• Wonders: Stonehenge
  
• Techs: Hunting, Mining, Myst, Agri?, Wheel, AH, BW, Fishing?

Gillette

• Cities:
  • capital @ size 5
    
  • 1 @ size 2
• Army: 2 Warriors (spot who has the NAPs :rolleyes: )
  
• Techs: Fishing, Hunting, Mining, Wheel, Pottery, AH, BW, Agri?

Pirates

At war with Menagerie.

• Cities:
  • capital @ size 3 (Barbados) (need to check if this or Tortuga that got pop T48)
    
  • 1 @ size 2 (Tortuga)
    
  • 1 @ size 1
• Army: 3 Quechua, 2 Archers
  
• Techs: Mining, Myst, Agri, Wheel, AH, BW, Archery

[pling]

In their T49 TEAM grew one of their size 1 cities to size 2 - almost certainly their second city. This gives them a 1k power increase which is all we need to account for. No extra units.

They've got ~26 hammers in something in their capital.

Menagerie got another 6k power. Axeman again, probably?

----

Marked up the graphs now we have Pirates lines:

[pling]

As I said, TEAM grew their second city from size 1 to size 2. Now we have killed their Warrior they have 2 Archers (and we can see them) and 2 Warriors (one of which is south of us).

Gillette grew their capital to size 6 & their other city to size 3. They also got 4k of soldiers from units - I'm putting that down as 2 Warrior builds, could also be a Chariot.

Pirates got a tech with no soldier points, I'm tentatively assigning that as Fishing for now. (I'd first thought Pottery, but judging by their GNP graph they've not been getting enough beakers to've got that since T43 ... unless they researched a bit of it, then switched to Archery, then back.)

Both Gillette & Pirates seem to have got their third ring borders this turn - Gillette gained between 14 & 16 tiles, Pirates gained between 12 & 14 tiles.

Menagerie got another 6k of units ...yet another Axe I assume, I think they're now up to 4 Axes.

[pling]

After TEAM's T50 they have 33 hammers in something Pitboss3.

Power didn't change at all.

[novice]

After TEAM's T50 they have 33 hammers in something Pitboss3.

Power didn't change at all.

What about Losing?