[Spoiler] Fintourist loses his multiplayer virginity

[BRickAstley]

This one is better.

*edit: wait, I think we have multiple images hooked up to the same smiles now.

[Fintourist]

Hmph, I can't stop thinking about that SIP might not be the best solution since I give up improving the fish for a long time. But settling e.g. 1E simply delays improving the rice for at least 4 turns if I'm not india (3 turns slower worker+ 1 turn movement). Work boat opening is of course possible but that feels so slow. I think I have to try and sim even basic stuff like this. Maybe I can do it this evening..

Our picking has not began, but real speculation about the choices will start properly after we have finalized the settings.. I believe Sareln will be soon back and we get to start this.

[kjn]

You have a FPH available to speed up the WB, so you will get a 5t or 6t WB depending on if you settle 1E or 1NE.

[Fintourist]

You have a FPH available to speed up the WB, so you will get a 5t or 6t WB depending on if you settle 1E or 1NE.

Thanks kjn, that confirms the game mechanic that 1 lake tile is enough to build WB. I definitely have to test this even though I hate the idea of wasting 2/2/1 starting tile..

[kjn]

Thanks kjn, that confirms the game mechanic that 1 lake tile is enough to build WB. I definitely have to test this even though I hate the idea of wasting 2/2/1 starting tile..

Work boats can be built in any city that is coastal, or that borders a water tile where the water contains a resource.

9 and less tiles of water counts as fresh water.

10 or more tiles of water counts as ocean and makes a city coastal.

20 (I think, might be 21) tiles of water is required to build actual naval units (ie everything but work boats).

[Fintourist]

Kjn? Are these 5/6 turn work boats related to quick speed? Otherwise I am doing something wrong.

I've made couple of sim rounds, but I still have no clue what's the best opening. 6/0/2 Fish is simply delicious, but it loses the PH start and probably couple of forests. I have to scout the east as the first thing when the game starts.

I do not know either if NE or E is better if I go for a fish: Faster work boat and no hurry to tech AH vs. eventually pastured sheep.

Another question is whether I go with wheel-pottery or mining-bronze working first. Depending on the start I need Agri, Fishing & AH as well. Only one thing is clear, I can't afford to take mysticism or hunting as a starting tech.

I really need to continue comparing options. For veterans this must be easy, but when you have played only 2 or 3 working boat starts ever (and those against AI), it isn't that easy..

I really don't want to screw up my start on T0..

I'm considering Native Americans as a civ if I use all my points except 1 on leader traits. Fishing & Agri as starting techs, and one early dog soldier in a right place could eventually really screw up the start of one opponent since nobody enjoys teching archery.. Well, next time when I post I think I should have a plan.

[kjn]

Kjn? Are these 5/6 turn work boats related to quick speed? Otherwise I am doing something wrong.

Oh, yeah, this is normal right. Sorry about that, I was assuming quick, as for most PBEMs.

[Fintourist]

So after a bit of sandboxing my best SIP-plan goes approximately like this:

- SIP
- start with Ag&Wheel, tech Fishing -> AH -> Mining -> BW -> Pottery -> something
- build worker I -warrior I -worker II -settler I - warrior II
- worker actions go more or less in this order: farm corn, pasture sheep, chopeti chop chop, cottages, (mine)

Worker II is done EOT 27
Settler EOT 32
Anarchy (Slavery) T33
2nd city is founded T34 (NE, E or SE) of fish
~EOT 40: Capitol reaches size 5, WB is built in second city with the help of 1 chop (probably earlier).

Comments:
- I work unimproved fish practically all the time. (3/0/2) is not that bad though. (3/0/3 with probable financial)
- I tech fishing so early only because of this
- I don't know yet if I should skip it in order to get BW & Pottery faster
- Otherwise I have "almost" enough work labor to match the growth. I have not made detailed micro yet but I feel that I'm at the limit. When the new city comes and capitol grows to size 5, I probably work forest couple of turns.
- Capitol and City II are only 3 tiles apart. This has both positive and negative aspects.
- If the land east of fish is crap or I find significantly better spots elsewhere, this opening may lead me into:
a) suboptimal city map
b) improving the great fish tile might last way too long or it will never get improved
c) making stupid decisions because I don't want to waste fishy lake.

Leader/Civ pick related comments:
- I consider researching Agri myself (and then AH), but I need two relevant techs or I am screwed. This would be done to save points in leader draft. I could go with Mali (Wheel/Mining). This probably would mean that I have to skip fishing and work worse tiles in the beginning. I would need to create a completly new "micro plan".
- If I skip Agri and I have 6 points to use for traits, Willem would be a dream. Financial will boost my research immediately (fish, sheep, cottages).
- If we have 5 point system I could take FIN/CHA and Agri/Wheel. That would give me at least some incentive to build those monuments. I hate them..


I haven't simply been able to match this expansion with settling next to the fish. I can get settler out approximately at the same time, but I have even more trouble with getting enough working labor and building two warriors. I guess I will try those one more time but ATM I feel better with SIP.

I promise that after the game starts I don't write anymore confusing posts with changing plans every single day (this thread has been also a way to organize my thinking). Hopefully this all will become more readable then and I don't lose all my potential lurkers. I promise to learn how to take screenshots!

Is there an easy way to change leaders and civs in the world editor? I fear not
I really would like to test this plan with
a) Willem of Mali (6 points)
b) Hannibal of Egypt/France/Ottomans

[Fintourist]

So here is the v1 of the micro plan with pictures.

Hannibal (FIN/CHA) of Egypt (Agri/Wheel)

Start:




Turn 22
Fishing, AH & Mining researched.
Worker & 1,33 warriors built.
Thebes reaches size 3 and starts 2nd worker:




Turn 28
BW & 2nd worker ready. Chopping begins.




Turn 32
I miss pottery with one single beaker, which causes 1 wasted worker turn. I really hope that I can get it somewhere when I recheck this plan or I can get it from known-tech bonus.. Settler ready.




Turn 34
Anarchy suffered. Memphis founded. Capitol empty..



Turn 38
Fish online. Capitol growing on it.




Turn 40
Capitol reaches size 5 and works Corn, Sheep and 3 cottages. Memphis working the Fish.





I would be happy about the comments regarding this plan. Feel free to say that it sucks. I can take it and I admit that I am green. This is my first multiplayer game ever and I have played less than 20 SP games so there must be lot of room for improvement

It is a kind of a farmer's gambit but since everyone starts with the scout and most of the people here are builder-oriented I hope that I will be okay. I am able to whip an emergency warrior during the couple turns when capitol is empty.

[Fintourist]

So, the picking begins and I will be choosing second. I think the last place would have been the best, since I believe that I would have been able to make okay picks in that position as well. Now I will play second to last, which is of course always a major handicap and apparently trade route calculation screws me as well. Well, no can do.

I will start with selecting the leader. There will be enough Agri/Wheel civs left in the second round.

Do I take FIN/CHA or FIN/IMP. I do not know. +1 happiness and +1 monument vs. faster settler. With IMP I would get my 2nd warrior ready before settler and the settler out ~1t earlier. Capitol would be growing sooner, but I would not really have the worker labor to support it.. Of course later settlers would be significantly faster as well. Or do I want slightly bigger capitol in the beginning.. Argh, I really do not know.

I think EXP works well with this start. Sury is probably the best leader available in the pick. However, I will go with FIN, it is kind of a safe bet and saving 1 point for civ selection gives me better/more expensive starting techs. If I would go with Sury of Mali (Mining/Wheel) or Sury of Carthage (Fishing/Wheel). I would be in an extreme hurry to tech (Fishing) -> Agri->AH->(Mining)-> BW -> Pottery. My early workers would have more time to do their job, but the bottle neck would be the research. This would be a good pick nevertheless.