BaII cleans up THH's mess [spoilers!]

[Sian]

we could probably chat when i get back home from chess (say ... ~10pm GMT)

[TheHumanHydra]

I think that's 17:00 my time - that should work.

[TheHumanHydra]

Okay, for any readers, this is what Sian and I decided in our chat, going off of the assumption of six-point buy for civ and leader choices as laid out by Fintourist in the tech thread:

Plan A) Mehmed (Exp/Org) of Aztec
Plan B) Mansa Musa (Fin/Spi) of Spain, substituting Huayna Capac (Fin/Ind) if we pick last or second-last and no one else is Industrious.

Mehmed is obviously powerful, especially given our start above and that this is a (fairly) water-heavy map. Why Aztec? Their unique building lets us whip more; whipping is a weak area in my game that I'd like to improve. Plus, it's synergistic with our traits: Organized makes the Sacrificial Altar cheaper and lets us run hammer-multipliers like Bureaucracy and Organized Religion more easily, while Expansive makes the Granaries so central to a whip-heavy strategy go up faster. In addition, we have both cheap Lighthouses and Harbours, good for this watery map, as well as Factories if the game happens to go that far. Plus, Aztec has the appeal of being weird.

If we don't get Mehmed of Aztec, we'll try and go for Mansa Musa of Spain. We like the idea of using the Conquistador as a game-ender; Spain is worth zero points in the current scheme, which would let us go for the powerhouse trait of Financial and hopefully get to those Conquistadors faster. Spiritual would be another learning experience for me; while I understand its theoretical power, I usually shy away from it in single-player as it doesn't actually add anything to your civ - just give you versatility. Sian convinced me to go for it, though; I'm confident he'll be able to tutor me in its proper use. If we pick near the end, though, and no one else has picked an Industrious leader, we'll pick Huayna Capac instead - having a monopoly on the boost to wonder production lets you go for those wonders with that much more certainty.

If we get Mehmed of Aztec, we'll settle in place on the plains hill and work the Sheep tile as soon as the borders pop. That way our Expansive bonus to Worker production will kick in and we'll be off to a running start. If we get Spain, though, we'll move 1S and settle next to the Fish tile, taking advantage of our starting tech of Fishing.

So, to sum up, we've got two very different games in the works depending on which of our preferred picks we end up with - if either! I might try and come up with some additional alternates in case strong leaders like Mehmed, Mansa Musa and Huayna Capac aren't available. England might be an easy swap for Spain (we wavered between them), while I can't imagine anyone else picking Aztec. Obviously if the picking scheme ends up being different, we'll have to reevaluate.

Well, I hope that was interesting for any readers, or for the other players, once the game is done!

[TheHumanHydra]

Again, for any readers:

Sian and I had another chat discussion with the switch to five points and decided on Spain and either Gandhi (Org/Spi) or Roosevelt (Ind/Org) depending on everyone else's picks. We think Organized is a strong economic trait, especially on a water map; Spiritual is for versatility, Industrious for wonders if no one else picks it. We plan to move the settler 1S and work the fish up to size two, then switch to the highest-hammers tiles to get a work boat out as soon as possible, followed by a worker. We plan to research Agriculture first, then Mining and Bronze Working, then probably back for Animal Husbandry: the sheep tile will be mined in the meantime. (These are basically all Sian's suggestions; I am going to go sim out the start to see if there's anything I think we should do differently.)

Again, I hope that was interesting; I wish I knew if anyone was actually reading this.

[Commodore]

Gandhi is actually Spi/Phi, Asoka is the Org/Spi Indian leader. Ought to be interesting indeed, hope to see some Conquistador use.

[TheHumanHydra]

Yeah, I was going to clarify that with my next post. Good to see somebody is reading! We hope to be able to use the Conquistador as a "finisher," but for that we need to accrue a tech advantage. We'll see if we can make that happen!

Sian, I simmed the start you suggested and produced the following results (note that this was on a Duel-sized map, which apparently affects tech costs, but that's not too important for the purposes of this sim):

First turn, we move 1S and settle, working the unimproved fish tile:



On turn 7, we switch to the unimproved sheep tile to put us at exactly enough food to reach size 2 while maximizing hammers:



Next turn, we actually can't work the plains forest hill tile without going into starvation, so I had us work the grassland forest hill tile instead:



Turn 12, the work boat pops out and improves the fish, allowing us to produce a worker in 8 turns:



Turn 20, the worker pops out; we finished Bronze Working when the turn rolled over, so we can do any one of a number of things with him, including improving the corn as you suggested. Settler in 12 turns, or warrior in 11 working the fish and unimproved corn (so obviously, that would change):



If we do improve the corn first, the worker will finish in perfect time for us to start building a settler using that tile, having just built a warrior and jiggling the tiles around like before. We will also be 2 turns from Animal Husbandry, giving us exactly the right amount of time to get the worker onto the sheep tile; we would have to weigh this against chopping first. I might continue the sim to analyze this later. Anyway, I don't know if that was helpful, but I found it interesting. Also, I kinda wanted to test out my ability to report and post pictures. I probably posted too many pictures; oh well!

(If it wasn't clear, Agriculture actually researched in 5 turns before I even took the first screenshot!)

[Sian]

Much more important than the size ...

Your Sandboxing is on Normal speed ... PBEM's are on Quick ...

[TheHumanHydra]

What?! I thought this one was on Normal! Agh, I just wasted a whole afternoon!

[Commodore]

It is normal for the vets, and I think for the greens too.

[SevenSpirits]

I recommend comparing your plan to one where you try to maximize the speed of getting the workboat out. (i.e. work the plains forest hill for 6 turns and the sheep hill for 2 turns). Getting the fish improved is worth +3 food/hammers per turn, while growing to size 2 is only worth a measly +1.