EitB 0010 Wishlist/Progress

[GreyWolf]

The Malakim are unthematic for their lore, but a decently balanced civ. I would, personally, change them, but I don't think that a balance mod needs these changes.
I do think that the Sheaim need a boost to their Planar Gates, since, judging from their performance in multiplayer games on this site, they are somewhat underpowered.

[HidingKneel]

Mostly agreed on the fact that the elves have gotten too many boosts. But Kithra at Hidden Paths is one that I strongly approve of.
Feral Bond was too advanced a tech to put the lesser religious hero at. In base FFH, the main reason to research it was as a prereq for Commune with Nature, so in practice you usually ended up unlocking both of the FoL heroes in quick succession.
Having it at Hidden Paths makes for nice symmetry with the other early religions (Saverous at Mind Stapling and Bambur at Arete). Maybe Hidden Paths needs a cost hike? It sure does unlock a lot.

Also agreed that the Sheaim need a boost. The fact that they were not chosen in the Armageddon game is telling. They're supposed to be the Armageddon civ, but in practice Armageddon only hurts them slightly less than everybody else. Making Planar Gates viable would be a good start, but I think what they really need is a "peace with the nasties" mechanic that I've seen in some other modmods (not the barbarians, just the horsemen/avatar of wrath).

[Tasunke]

some modmods make the Armageddon units a separate barbarian type (like Demons or something)

[gekko64]

peace with demons would fit the Sheaim like a glove, agreed.

thinking of a way to give them something like that, WITHOUT having to code in the whole split barbarian teams mechanic, and without just giving them BAR trait, is a bit tricky.

Fall Further let AV Sheaim get peace with demons by sacrificing a city. something like that would work, i.e. let them gain BAR trait in the midgame by sacrificing something. easiest route: sacrifice hammers! an expensive ritual ( tech prereq either corruption of spirit or infernal pact ) that gives them BAR ( possibly unbreakable though, otherwise it's a bit lame if you happen to lose it afterwards... ) .

[Tasunke]

personally I think Satyrs should require Hidden Paths + Animal Handling (and level 4 of course)

Kithra is nice, to be sure, but Kithra plus a stack of Satyrs is just more power than is necessary imho (at least before animal handling, which is at least a bit beyond the early game)

I don't mind Kithra at HP, but yea, I think Satyrs at HP too is a bit much imho (and, at least for me, animal handling makes a lot of sense as an additional req). Fawns buildable at the first FoL tech like always, of course.


Personally I think Malakim should be able to build at least cottages (and maybe workshops) on desert tiles. Yes, desert should still be 'weaker' than plains, but I think they should have at least some incentive for keeping plenty of deserts around. And personally I like Sun + Fire + Water for them ... because A) desert dwellers like water, B) having exclusive access to Sun + Water (if sun is removed from the kuriotates) makes them stronger in the desert than any other race -> synergy with the nomad promo imho, and C) Bhall's followers, the Seraphs, mostly fell and turned to balors YES ... but some remained as Seraphs and joined into servitude with Lugus. So Fire makes sense as the third sphere.

[Qgqqqqq]

GoN alone made the tech very attractive imo.
....

Disagree heartily with this.
GoN is powerful but only for elves, and fol needs to be powerful for more then that.
Meanwhile satyr s require a significant investment to work functionally.
Elves DO have a powerful economy, but keep in mind that's (pretty much) all they get. It means they can reach/build the toys quicker, but they don't have any of their own (IIRC of course ).
If they've been boosted by eitb, then its mainly in the speed they can pick up FoL.

[gekko64]

well, we are talking about elves now, not FoL. lumbermills buildable on ancient forests make FoL already way better for other civs than vanilla, but the insane synergy between elves and GoN makes the civic hard to balance for everybody ( that's why I suggested a cap on how much happy it can give, or just making it allow forest preserves which give happy with GoN ) .

anyway, I'd agree with Satyrs at animal handling ( I think it's enough without the additional hidden paths prereq which you're going to want asap anyway ) . boosting Hidden Paths beaker cost might also help, but keep in mind it's bulbable with prophets so that only goes so far..

[Tasunke]

I could see satyrs at animal handling alone, yes. With Kithra Kyriel and Guardian of Nature at Hidden Paths.

[Qgqqqqq]

No were not actually, any alteration to FoL instinctively effects the religion as well as the elves.

Why are satyrs so OP anyway?
The only elf civ with any synergy with them is volanna and the svartalfar are worse then the ljolsofar anyway.

[Tasunke]

Your not what?