Game Thread

[Tasunke]

Also, due to Gillette's eagerness it might have SEEMED a good idea to let him go first,but we REALLY SHOULD have made it to where we attacked at the same time.

The current situation is just ugly >_>

But me getting peace won't really change anything. who knows, maybe if someone else joins in the war I'll be able to capture something back :D

[Tasunke]

alright, so I royally buggered myself on this one. I think I used slavery too much, I got into a war I couldn't win after Gilllette unfortunately declared peace, I thought I could make an impact on the game but it does not seem that I really did. I had hoped, that perhaps with Gillete's help, I could have captured at least a third of Plako's cities ...... probably razing most of them but keeping a few, and then expanding in that territory. I suppose I assumed that the reds would be all but completely wiped out. Looks like he spent a more conservative approach on his war with me .....

They have been asking for peace for awhile, razed maybe 2-3 of our cities, our war weariness is getting a bit too high after the last few battles, and our army is no longer large enough to have actionable offensive capabilities.

Therefore, I sent in a simple peace request last turn. I haven't done any diplomacy since the onset of the war, other than gauging the war capabilities of M3 and Gillette, as to possible assistance to me duringthe war. I was FAR too cagey in my diplomacy imho.

I mean really, I should have been much more open to the other parties about my war intentions. I was reluctant to do so because of something Gillette said about not wanting M3 to know until at least after the Catapults were gifted, but continuing to be cagey was a mistake ....

perhaps if I had been more active during the key turns, when Gillette was asking me about when I could declare war, it would have been better.

I really think now that I should have waited for him or rather, told him to wait, until I was ready to attack. As it turned out he never ended up using Muskets, so the early attack was pointless.

Plako used drafting to his great advantage, and it ended up crushing all opposition. Even so I am interested that he did not vie for my complete destruction, or perhaps he wanted to focus more on economics and defense, a wise choice in this sort of game.

I guess I was enamored by the plan Lewwyn portrayed, of whipping forges and barracks and building a Knight army of doom. In the end I think there were superior alternatives I could have persued .... tbh I don't think Organized religion or forges really helped me as much as they cost me. I should have just built barracks in a few cities and worked on units far longer than buildings.

Also, I just let Gillette go first in the attack thinking it would be of little consequence, and preventing Plako from musketing up. Well, perhaps it did prevent him from reaching muskets but ... the cost was too great. A 2 sided war would have been far superior to attacking a bit early. This reminds me of when everyone attacked Sulla in a somewhat piecemeal fashion.

[Qgqqqqq]

Pics please?
Why are they warring you?
Is it for land, payback or to knock you out?
I'm assuming land, so how much do they want, and how much are you prepared to give? (If they're burning cities then they can take it, its just a matter of cost).
Is there any diplo contact?

[Qgqqqqq]

How are we no state religion on T166????
Despite having high MP everywhere?

[Qgqqqqq]

Okay general game update.
I've been a bit uncertain how to handle the cities - inheriting 40+ turns of whip unhappy and a major threat is difficult to know how to handle.
I considered non-military builds for a turn, when discussions with Trolls were going well and I was waiting to hear about the current NAPs.
Went back to military after Cornflakes basically said we should vacate our cities for him in return for a NAP - and then refused a NAP extension whilst saying we shouldn't view it as a guarantee of attack!
Since its come up in diplo, my basic position is that my job in this game (and yeah its a job not fun - maybe if id spent 200 turns microing these cities I wouldn't mind a la Space in PB8) is to make sure my civ lives as long as possible as a individual entity. That means my goal is not to leave this game ASAP as Cornflakes thinks, with the goal being my legacy in the game (his basic justification for me providing the cities).
So far I get on best with Gillete, which is hardly surprising given they are propping me up against Trolls.
Trolls has just asked for a rather expensive NAP deal, which I would take pretty quickly except it may feel like a betrayal of Gillete. I'll probably take it regardless, and spend the next 50t defending from Pirates, as they can take those cities if with a bit of blood.
My coastal cities are practically undefended, though I am whipping tiremes, Iv probably should just resign to naval irrelevancy.

[Qgqqqqq]

Peace with Trolls for an as yet undermined amount of gold, two cities plus a couple of locations (one is in their territory, the other we had razed earlier). We get 50t of peace, a bunch of happy resources, and survival.
By the end of the discussion the possibility of a mutual war with Pirates was proposed, as they are paranoid we will lose cities to foreign powers. That's what my bribe depends on, whether they help me out in the war.
During the chat (which I may post, but not exactly urgent given trolls will likely post) there was a fair bit of discussion about vassalage and its place in Civ. I Jane no illusions - TEAM isn't going to win this game we're too far behind and I have no intention of attempting a futile culture run. My gifting cities might be frowned upon, but it IS best for the Civ, as is any alliance with Trolls for Pirate land. Basically, for me, vassalage is a appropriate term for how our relationship may turn out (peace and the floating of war support/mutual invasion isn't a alliance, not yet at least) but the distinction for me is that I maintain doing what is best for my Civ (which may involve negative sum deals to secure friendship with, admittedly, a runaway) rather then "throwing victory" as was controversial in previous games (and would've been in this if id gone along with Pirates).
Yeah its a tangled web of logic
I suppose the biggest reason this won't be controversial is no one cares about this game, beyond the participants (I am starting to care, a little bit).

[Tasunke]

we werent in a State Religion!???

:facepalm:

no wonder OR wasn't helpiing me any .... >_>

[Qgqqqqq]

Don't worry, I've built all of no buildings
The happiness was the main issue...

[Tasunke]

ah alright.

Well, it woulda helped me get the forges + barracks up, or else staying out would have saved on maintenance xD


but yea, I def made some mistakes, I think most of all was my lack of attention to diplomacy in the '11th hour' and not knowing when was the right time to openly reveal my intentions to the other players.

Honestly, after the GIllette/M3 deal had passed through, by then I should have openly declared my intentions, etc etc

Although anothe obstacle was not being able to intuitively time when I'd be prepared to attack, unlike the face-paced day-games I used to play long ago

Was definitely a learning experience though, would have been nice to have had more time to pour into this one

[Qgqqqqq]

Tbh I think you weren't entirely experienced with bts and possibly took the idea of a knight beeline too far - we were missing some key economic techs.
As everyone else will have heard otherwise, I bought the Troll Mace army for 1200 bucks (I thought it was 1000 until we sent the actual deals because they'd kept ignoring me asking what they wanted as the original deal. At that point I was too tired to any more diplomacy though, and let it pass), only to discover that Pirates weren't preparing for war anyway Apparently they were trying to negotiate a deal with M3.
This made me ever so slightly pissed, but I eventually decided that peace was the goal after all, and trying to shake out concessions for not spite warring them/dragging them down was just mean. Besides, I don't have time for wars atm.

So I basically get the spacetyrant position from PB8 (which is funny, as he's technically on the team), just quietly building up for another 80 turns while waiting for someone to invade or win the game. Cept I can't even worry about someone invading...
So yeah, Kyan is right about how powerful diplo can be, and ot sure id want to sign up for another diplo one, though it might be fun to team with someone with a similar TZ to chat...cause chatting with zak (for about 3 hours total, possibly more) is a bit exhausting but still quite fun. Its the diplo portion that's the worst.

So yeah, I don't blame you for neglecting diplo tasunke (though I'll admit I've railed against you a bit - apparently you had a much better deal offered where they just asked for a few knights or something ). Sorry if you find anything mean or offensiv.

Oh and cornflakes once more tried to get my cities
I understand its hardball diplo, but try to understand how that might be offensive...