RBPitboss #2 Athlete4life10 & Kalin

[athlete4life10]

Kalin,

I'd agree with you about moving 1SW. It appears to leave the choice open for 1 more turn.

I was able to find some time to do further computations and I believe continuing with the rice until size 2 then switch to furs and plains/forest would be the best way to go. I have to go over the numbers again so once I do I'll post a clearer argument.

Athlete

[athlete4life10]

OK, so here's what it looks like:

Plan production:
T6 fishing in, build WB, switch to furs, tech mining
T10 size 2 reached, work furs and plains/forest
T13 work furs and rice, mining in tech BW
T14 WB completes, resume warrior, work crabs and rice
T19 size 3 reached, work crabs rice and furs
T21 Warrior completes, start 2nd warrior
T24 BW in, tech pottery, adopt slavery
T26 size 4 reached, work crabs rice furs and grassland/forest, start worker
With whipping and what not warrior 2 should complete Turn 29

Plan Size 2 production:
T6 fishing in, build WB, switch to furs, tech mining
T8 size 2 reached, work furs and plains/forest
T13 work furs and rice, mining in tech BW
T14 WB completes, resume warrior, work crabs and rice
T18 size 3 reached, work crabs rice and furs
T20 Warrior completes, start 2nd warrior
T22 BW in, tech pottery, adopt slavery
T26 size 4 reached, warrior 2 completes,work crabs rice furs and grassland/forest, start worker

Obviously I'm leaning towards Plan Size 2 production.

[athlete4life10]

Kalin,

I think by the signs you left in game you thought it might work out more if we worked the grass forest for the next 2 turns instead of the rice. I did some calculations and it doesn't get the WB any sooner and it delays future growth and tech slightly so I'm sticking with plan size 2 production in the above post unless you can find something better than that.

Athlete

[athlete4life10]

Will comment more later but I'm still undecided about whether to head NW or SE...

[kalin]

Athlete,

What I suggested in game was to work the rice this turn and the furs next turn. That would put 4H in the WB and still grow to size 2 in 2T with 0F overflow. It probably doesn't matter much, as with 26H left in the boat it would take 6T to finish it given that we can have 5H/turn max. We could probably work the furs and a 1F/2H tile for 4 turns, then furs and rice for 2 turns. We don't gain much, just 2 extra commerce I think, but it's still something.

The sign in game is wrong I meant to suggest NW, but like you I am not sure. What do you think of my hypothesis of a strip of land running NW to SE? If true, then going SE will probably be better to meet another civ. However, it's just a hypothesis and I don't have much to back it.

The marble and fish are quite nice. We may try a shot at some wonder based wonders, however I think we should only do that once the land situation is clear and met our neighbors. I think I'd like to take a down to earth approach for this game and stick to the basics: expand, build workers, troops and leave the wonders to the others. Being the only cultural civ may allow us to block some land and we should take advantage if possible. It's also likely that if we can get that marble, others may have too.

In summary, I agree with your plan 2 Another point is that we have 6H in the warrior so in an emergency we can finish it in 2T (working 5H then 4H) so the sooner we reach size 2 the better!

Kalin

[athlete4life10]

Kalin,

Thanks for the input. Working the rice this turn and furs next doesn't do us any good. Sure the extra hammers are nice but it doesn't get the WB faster. However it costs us 2 food which are extremely important to my plan for getting to size 4 asap. Without those 2 food it delays size 4 a turn which screws everything up . So I'd say stick with rice till size 2 then work furs and plains/forest until the plan says to go back to the rice.

RE: Your hypothesis

It's certainly better than anything I can think of . For whatever reason I wanna say the north is vacant where we are or atleast if we have a neighbour in the north there's more land between us then their might be then somebody in the south/east so I think we should head SE next turn. Depending how it runs we might just follow the coast.

I definitely agree with you about being the only creative civ. That should allow us to seal some land quickly and backfill as necessary. We should really take advantage of that. The fish/marble site is certainly tempting. It'll be good to have for atleast the HE/NE and we can use it for whatever we seem fit to try but I'm inclined to agree with you and try to just expand asap rather then try to land any early wonder. I still have The Hanging Gardens idea in my head though...

Looking at the land if we're gonna go SE it looks like that will be atleast 2 turns in a row given the hill/forest would be the 2nd move.

Athlete

[athlete4life10]

A little C&D

4 of us got techs this turn. Only 2 techs can be researched so quickly: fishing and hunting!

Ottomans obviously got fishing

Zululand got fishing as well as they already have hunting

Inca's - I'd have to say fishing. There's not much reason for them to start with hunting. Well I suppose if they went worker first and had furs or elephants but my guess is fishing because I'm pretty sure they didn't go worker first.

Mali - Probably fishing. Possibly hunting. It would make more sense to go fishing first. I just can't see anybody open up with hunting but if anybody is going to Mali is probably them. It opens up Archery for the skirmisher and can build scouts so maybe Dantski wants 2 movers rather than 1 for scouting. Still I consider it more likely he got fishing.

****edit Mali definitely took Hunting per the demogs. They started with Mining = 2K, The wheel = 4K and a warrior = 2K for a total of 8K and they are the only one capable of starting with 8K. The top civ now has 10K and the only thing that could have generated points this early on is a full production warrior for 2K or a tech for 2K in Hunting. So that means the 10K still has to be Mali. So naturally they have to have teched Hunting first. Skirmisher rush anybody? /edit****

**** edit # 2: The Incan's got Hunting. Just checked the demogs and the rival average is too high to have only one civ get Hunting. /edit****

[athlete4life10]

Well techs might be the easiest thing to track so that's where I'll start. A list of the active civs with their known techs and what turn they discovered it on. I've thrown us in there for comparison purposes.

Ottomans:
Started with The Wheel and Agriculture
Fishing on T6
Mining on T13
Bronze Working on T19

Incan:
Started with Mysticism and Agriculture
Hunting or Fishing on T6
Mining T13

Zululand:
Started with Hunting and Agriculture
Fishing on T6
Mining T13
Eliminated T13

Rome:
Started with Fishing and Mining
Agriculture on T10
The Wheel on T19

India:
Started with Mysticism and Mining
Bronze Working on T15

Mali:
Started with The Wheel and Mining
Hunting on T6
Fishing on T11
Archery on T19

Byzantium:
Started with The Wheel and Mysticism
Agriculture on T8
Mining on T15

Greece:
Started with Fishing and Hunting
Mining on T7

Korea:
Started with Mysticism and Mining
Agriculture T8

HRE:
Started with Mysticism and Hunting
Agriculture on T8
Mining on T15

[athlete4life10]

As well everybody's borders have popped except LiPings. Hers will pop next turn. India is paving the way with an all land capital and we're 3rd now so there's one other civ with the same or less water then us. Not too shabby. LiPing has 7000 now so depending on how many 2nd ring water tiles she has, she could overtake us in the land department.

Oh I'm pretty sure somebody had to take Hunting as somebody's power score increased.

@Lurkers: Can somebody either list or provide a link as to where I can find the power ratings for techs and units?

[Cyneheard]

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy...aphics.php

For units to soldiers, it's 1k*str, with a few exceptions (UUs can have different strengths over base units: Praets are 8k, Skrims are 4k...).
Axemen are 6k, Crossbows are 7k, Macemen are 9k (so +1k for +50% vs melee, it seems).
Techs vary (Hunting and Mining are 2k, Wheel is 4k, BW is 8k, IW is 10k).