Is that character a variant? (I just love getting asked that in channel.) - Charis

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[SPOILERS] The Suttree Gambit: Catherine of China

Thanks!
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Let's talk about the start:




1) Do I have reason to believe moving the starting settler would improve the start?

Moving off the plains hill loses the bonus hammer. Moreover, moving away from the river loses a potential free trade route to the second city. So it seems unlikely I will move.

If I start with hunting, however, it would be possible for the scout to move NW-NW to the plains hill or S-SE to the ivory. Both offer a bonus hammer. I can't see how I would discover resources near the ivory comparable to the riverside pig and the wet rice and a turn's movement - it seems to be surrounded by forest. But it does seem possible (albeit unlikely) that the plains hill gives visibility on resources that could justify a move. It would have to be something better than a wet wheat. Even with the savings from delaying AH.

The scout move presumes I have hunting, but settling in place also favours a hunting start since we need at least one of agriculture or hunting in order to develop the pig on schedule.

2) What are the constraints on starting civ?

The riverside pig tile is by far the best tile I can see on the board. Delaying development of this tile has a cost. Developing this tile, however, also has a cost (Animal Husbandry demands 143b that we might prefer to spend on BW and/or early pottery or an adventure up the religious branch. But chopping is no better than developing the pig, I don't want to play Expansive, and I'm sceptical about early religion when there are other options. So unless I'm forced to take a Mysticism civ, I want to have AH by t12 and develop the pig first.

AH costs 143b, AGR/HUNT both cost 48b. MIN costs 62. I don't have enough beakers to research a food tech and AH by t12, so picking a civ without both of AGR and HUNT will have a small cost (5b to be exact if I take MIN).

If I decide I need a MYST civ, I'm ahead on beakers but delay BW.

Even with nerfed impi, I think the ikhanda makes the Zulu(AGR/HUNT) strong enough that they are my top choice.

I would be willing to pay 5b to choose Khmer(HUNT/MIN), Russia(HUNT/MIN), Germany(HUNT/MIN), or China(AGR/MIN) over Persia (AGR/HUNT). I prefer Persia to Ethiopia(HUNT/MIN).

There are several excellent MYST civs, but I don't think I can make use of the pig and make use of MYST at the same time.

Examples of using MYST would be:

A) Building stonehenge - to be competitive, this suggests BW timed to finish as I complete the first settler, but I can't do that and get AH.

or

B) Early religion - to do what? Again, a delayed BW ought to knock me out of a competitive race for the Oracle. I could take a SPI leader for early happy and future benefits but my freedom to muck around in the religious branch of the tree is limited by beakers spent on an early AH. Granaries are good.

The only possible choice I can think of would be to play SPI/Inca. But cottages matter too.

I think I prefer to play the map and leave MYST civs for a game where the first city does't reward AH.
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(June 23rd, 2014, 14:19)suttree Wrote: 1) Do I have reason to believe moving the starting settler would improve the start?
Follow the Bongcloud theme and move it anyway mischief
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(June 24th, 2014, 07:22)ipecac Wrote: Follow the Bongcloud theme and move it anyway mischief

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First pick was China

I sketched out the numbers and China allows BW on turn 25. Coincidentally, t25 is the turn I would want to whip an IMP settler. Modded IMP sounds like fun, so China + an IMP civ is the plan.

I am, however, paying a price: my scout will move only 1 tile/turn. I really like this change; trade-offs are fun.

Starting micro is:

Summary:
Code:
t00 QUEUE WORKER, SELECT AH
t11 AH COMPLETE, SELECT BW
t12 WORKER COMPLETE, QUEUE WARRIOR
t15 PASTURE COMPLETE
t18 GROW
t20 WARRIOR COMPLETE, QUEUE WARRIOR
t21 GROW, FARM COMPLETE, WORK GRASS FOREST
t24 GROW, QUEUE SETTLER/WARRIOR(12), WORK PLAINS FORESTS
t25 BW COMPLETE, SELECT THE WHEEL, REVOLT
t26 WHIP SETTLER

Full:
Code:
t00,1  03f/t  00f  02h/t  000/060h  11b/t*.2=13  000/143b  QUEUE WORKER, SELECT AH
t11,1  03f/t  00f  02h/t  055/060h  11b/t*.2=13  000/177b  AH COMPLETE, SELECT BW
t12,1  03f/t  00f  02h/t  000/015h  11b/t*.2=13  013/177b  WORKER COMPLETE, QUEUE WARRIOR
t15,1  06f/t  09f  02h/t  006/015h  11b/t*.2=13  052/177b  PASTURE COMPLETE
t18,2  07f/t  05f  02h/t  012/015h  11b/t*.2=13  091/177b  GROW
t20,2  07f/t  19f  02h/t  001/015h  11b/t*.2=13  117/177b  WARRIOR COMPLETE, QUEUE WARRIOR
t21,3  09f/t  02f  03h/t  003/015h  11b/t*.2=13  130/177b  GROW, FARM COMPLETE, WORK GRASS FOREST
t24,4  07f/t  03f  09h/t  000/100h  11b/t*.2=13  169/177b  GROW, QUEUE SETTLER/WARRIOR(12), WORK PLAINS FORESTS
t25,4  ----   04f  -----  016/100h  -----------  004/078b  BW COMPLETE, SELECT THE WHEEL, REVOLT
t26,2  WHIP SETTLER
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I don't know what you heard about me
Not a leader that'll measure up to me
No FIN, no ORG, you gotta see
That I'm motherfucking CRE-I.M.P.


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You got your China / IMP combo? Very nice! Cathy seems like the new Sury / Joao type in this mod. With EXP over-nerfed, do you think you got the two best early traits?

I'm looking forward to seeing what you do and how this plays out after you get your second city down 10 turns ahead of most of the field. (Especially, without PRO and AGG.)
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Cathy Rules Everything Around Me
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Fun read so far. I lol'd at your mapmaker joke more stuff like that, please! I also like your leader/civ combo. Should be a fast start. Good luck!
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ON DOLLAR BILLS

A dollar bill is: legal tender, light, and recyclable. It synergizes with ur mom's g-string. If your goal is to maximize wealth, however, listing these virtues of a dollar bill doesn't make it best.
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