[NO PLAYERS] Lurking Thread For Lurkers Still Baffled

[Commodore]

Civ V player pulls level, candy comes out. I guess?

For some of us not in the know...these aren't exactly the most amazing reporters...what do each of these civs do?

[Meiz]

For some of us not in the know...these aren't exactly the most amazing reporters...what do each of these civs do?

And immediately Azza posts a nice review of the civs

[Jowy]

Best to worst picks:

1. Ethiopia - +2 faith from monument (now Stele) is the major thing. Helps you get an early pantheon and religion. Will be much stronger if the start has tiles that benefit from a pantheon.
2. Spain - High risk, high reward. If there is a good natural wonder nearby then Spain is fantastic, sometimes even broken OP.
3. Russia - Everything is useful, just not by much. Strategic resource quantity could come into play. Tundra start bias is interesting, it allows a tundra pantheon play, but the terrain might be crap.
4. Carthage - It's a water based civ, and not a particularly good one even at that.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I would consider replacing him if he didn't blow Ethiopia.

[Commodore]

I would, but I don't have Civ5 or any of its expansions.

[Meiz]

Come on MJW, take it as a challenge

[MJW (ya that one)]

Come on MJW, take it as a challenge

That was just the icing on the cake.

My bigger reasons.

1. I really dislike replacement players and other things RB has to do to make games end. In serious games you forfeit and the game ends immediately.

2. Me not playing Civ5 for over a year. That disadvantage is big enough that even if I win it would just prove the others suck especially with a weak civ.

3. Diplomacy not being on. This is bad for many reasons. For one, in all three Civ5 games here one civ just rofl-stomped everyone one else. I would also be an easy target for obvious reasons. Lastly, I consider anything that doesn't follow SP to be a shadow game because 90%+ players only play SP. So I would just feel that I'm playing a user-made mod and not really Civ5.

4. I don't like Civ5 that much and I wasn't even that good at it. I followed a cookie-cutter strat to always beat BWN EMP with any civ at any start and I didn't brother seriously with IMM because AI's get bonuses beyond original Civ4 Deity because of the "level 2" difficulty bug.

5. My job is very tiring and I already struggle because of it a bit. I don't know if it will get better latter but I know for now that playing a long-term game like this would put on even more strain and I don't know what would happen to me (I would probably just drop the game before things got too bad.)

[MJW (ya that one)]

And we are off for real. Two things have happened.

Everyone but Yuris planted on 'turn-zero' and he proved to be justified. Everyone one but Caledorn went scout. The scout is the best build under normal conditions because ancient ruins are so good (see sullla's new write-up). So building scout first is a rule in this game and it takes one of the best UBs in the game to justify breaking it.

[Meiz]

I think scout first is even more important on small maps, so Caledorn might be making a slight mistake here. He would get the first religion despite making stele his second build.

[Sullla]

These starting positions are not very well balanced at all. In order from best to worst:

Caledorn has a sick starting position here. I would have suggested moving SW-SE onto the resource tile (gems? silver? can't tell without the resource indicator) and settling there on T1. That gets the very nice 2/2/2 central tile for the capital, but just as importantly it pulls all of those floodplains tiles to the west into range. There are at least five of them there, and possibly more in the fog of war. Use the Ethiopian stele to found the first religion, take Desert Folklore, and start abusing the living daylights out of those floodplains. They'll be 4 food / 1 faith tiles upon reaching Civil Service, and you can reap thousands of free production over the course of the game via religion from doing nothing more than working tiles you'd be working anyway. Add Petra later for more silliness. Uluru can even be claimed by the second city, also on a river, also with lots of floodplains nearby... it starts to get ridiculous. Free faith! Get yer free faith here!

Will Caledorn go for this play? I have no idea. I agree that scout -> stele would be the stronger build here, as even one culture or pop point from a hut would more than pay back the cost. There is a case for going stele first, but ONLY if it's to lock down Desert Folklore so no one else can take it. Settling in place was not a good decision in my opinion. Sheep is a poor resource in Civ5, and this capital needs borders to expand to get any food going. On the resource, on the hill, next to the floodplains is way better.




Yuris also has an excellent starting position. The move on T0 was a major upgrade, great call. Two cattle plus a huge river plus grassland tiles everywhere makes for a fantastic food-rich capital. The only issues are low production from few hill tiles (another reason why that Caledorn capital is so good) and inability to abuse Desert Folklore via floodplains.

Rowain

This definitely should have been a move east onto the gems resource. It brings the 2/2/2 central tile into play, moves towards the third wheat and more riverside tiles, and moves away from tundra stuff. It even claims a fish that gets wasted in the default spot. The problem is that this is a seaside capital, and water tiles are generally awful in Civ5. Having pearls for the second luxury is also not a good sign. You don't want to build work boats, they are expensive and take ages to pay for themselves. This capital is just OK.




Yikes. This capital is absolute garbage. Did anyone look over this before sending out the map (?) Azza has no rivers anywhere, no sources of fresh water, zero grassland tiles, and a water-based luxury in whales. He's going to have to build three work boats here, dear god! Do you have any idea how far that will put him behind? It's laughable how much worse this spot is in comparison to the others. Azza has basically no chance to be competitive from the first turn. He needs to find multiple natural wonders with the Spain unique ability just to be in the ballpark. Brutally unfair setup here.

Factoring in player skill, I think Yuris will take this game in a walk. He seems to know Civ5's gameplay pretty well, and that's an excellent starting position. I am less confident in Caledorn and Rowain. Azza's been handed a game-losing spot from Turn 0. But of course, we'll have to wait and see.