[Spoilers] The Network assimilates ipecac, Ruff_Hi & Dreylin (Monty of Vikings)

[ipecac]

OK, just to confirm: next city is Red dot, followed by Stone dot?

Yep..

Red dot can be founded turn72 if we have chopped the forest, or t73 if not. The best way to get it chopped would be to send a Worker straight there after they complete the connection - it would delay getting the Cows online, but would get a few hammers and an extra turn from the new city in exchange. If we do that, the Worker could then step straight into the adjacent forest and chop that into the Workboat for the Fish (chop would finish 2t after the city founded).

We've got 1 Worker tied up chopping Oracle, and another down at Smurf. New Worker pops next turn and can put down a Cottage between Hub & 2.5" and then start the Road connection to the Stone. We might also want to take the chopping Worker along with him to speed up the connection.

Sounds good. For the workboat, we might want to press on especially if circumnavigation is possible on the map.

[Dreylin]

After last turn I started to think that maybe the WB is going to be stopped by Agent's borders. In that case do we declare a transit war to move through them, or look for another avenue of exploration?

Regarding circumnav, not sure whether it's available, but what we've seen so far makes me doubt it can be obtained solely by water - our Scout walked practically N to S, so there's likely another land stripe elsewhere. We'll see, I guess...

[Dreylin]

t65 played; nothing much to report.

[ipecac]

After last turn I started to think that maybe the WB is going to be stopped by Agent's borders. In that case do we declare a transit war to move through them?

I don't see why not

[Dreylin]

Well, no need to declare yet:


Played turned 66 and 67.

Twisted Pair is now connected and we've started to Pasture the Pigs and chop the forest under the new city site.

I found an issue with the Hub's sheet which was throwing off the research and (more importantly) the hammers. Turned out that with some re-jiggering of the Workers we can get the Oracle a turn earlier. So I tweaked that in the Worker plan; I also updated the workers to connect the Stone city.

The Hub needs reworking a bit after the Worker, and we need to decide how we're going to move forward with Twisted Pair. I'm not sure we need to whip the Spear; once it can be whipped we could keep it in the queue and just start the Granary while saving the pop point for whipping that?

[ipecac]

I found an issue with the Hub's sheet which was throwing off the research and (more importantly) the hammers. Turned out that with some re-jiggering of the Workers we can get the Oracle a turn earlier. So I tweaked that in the Worker plan; I also updated the workers to connect the Stone city.

The Hub needs reworking a bit after the Worker, and we need to decide how we're going to move forward with Twisted Pair. I'm not sure we need to whip the Spear; once it can be whipped we could keep it in the queue and just start the Granary while saving the pop point for whipping that?

The Plan is reworked: the Hub will build a Lighthouse (+1 food will pay for itself the quicker we get it up). I agree about Twisted Pair, so with the two chops coming in the I suggest we whip into a cheap Barracks (we need to contest those two squares culturally).

The Smurf has too much food so it can slowbuild Settler/Workers for the time being, while letting whip anger subside so later we can pull off the many whips needed to get Forge and Colossus out. (with three chops i project we can get it T100).

Edit- See Plan 2 which gets it out T91 by not following current Plan to build Temple). To confirm: we have 3 forests available for the Smurf: 1NE, 2E, 2SW?

[Dreylin]

OK, first things first is the exploration:


That's a Gems on the far side of the Mountain on our landmass, and a Gold under the forest on Agent's side. I'll head NW-NE next turn to defog the forest tile to the W of the Gems.

A couple of tweaks needed to The Plan I'm afraid. First Twisted Pair:


Worker is chopping the new city site - this will give just 10h because of distance & outside borders. The second chop will be in borders because the new city will have been founded by then so we could send the chop to Twisted, but I was thinking we could use it for the Workboat in the new city. We'll need a sheet for the new city as well, of course...

Smurf Tube:


We've got 2 forests in BFC and another in borders 3E, which should be worth about 16h. The 2 forests 2SE and 2SW (which would need a Galley BTW) will probably only give ~10h. So we're not over-endowed with forests at our current cities. Other options would be a new city to the North or to the S across the water (but I don't think we know enough about that area). So I think it's going to be a slow build with a bunch of whip overflow. BTW the Worker has just moved to that forest; he can start to chop or Mine (or do a jiggery combination of the two) to time the chop any tie from 3-7t from now - although if we want 7t or 3t we have to make a decision whether or not to start with the Mine or the chop - the Worker turns has it chop, then Mine; that should be able to go into a Forge though, I think.

[ipecac]

Worker is chopping the new city site - this will give just 10h because of distance & outside borders...

We've got 2 forests in BFC and another in borders 3E, which should be worth about 16h. The 2 forests 2SE and 2SW (which would need a Galley BTW) will probably only give ~10h. So we're not over-endowed with forests at our current cities. Other options would be a new city to the North or to the S across the water (but I don't think we know enough about that area). So I think it's going to be a slow build with a bunch of whip overflow. BTW the Worker has just moved to that forest; he can start to chop or Mine (or do a jiggery combination of the two) to time the chop any tie from 3-7t from now - although if we want 7t or 3t we have to make a decision whether or not to start with the Mine or the chop - the Worker turns has it chop, then Mine; that should be able to go into a Forge though, I think.

On forests: Ugh, I relied on this link for values, which gave me the wrong values.

We don't want to chop it now; we want to chop it direct into the colossus ~T91 so I think we pre-mine it, leaving 1T till the chop+mine completes. This is because it's only worth 20 h now when chopping into forge but 52.5 h when chopping into Colossus (Mathematics + Forge + Copper bonus). The other forests should be worth more then because of Mathematics but still not a full 30. 3E is equidistant from both Smurf and 2.5, so it could potentially go to both? I'll use a sandbox to confirm the chop values.

Oracleing MC for Colossus gives us less of an advantage (compared to BTS) because the base cost is reduced by 1/3 from 450b to 300b. So IMO we need to go for it fast, and thus plan 2 to get Colossus by ~T91 and which also gets out 3 workers in the process so it won't lag our development much.

[Ruff_Hi]

Looking good folks.

Q: Is 10.2 Gb of civ4 saves too much?

[Dreylin]

On forests: Ugh, I relied on this link for values, which gave me the wrong values.

We don't want to chop it now; we want to chop it direct into the colossus ~T91 so I think we pre-mine it, leaving 1T till the chop+mine completes. This is because it's only worth 20 h now when chopping into forge but 52.5 h when chopping into Colossus (Mathematics + Forge + Copper bonus). The other forests should be worth more then because of Mathematics but still not a full 30. 3E is equidistant from both Smurf and 2.5, so it could potentially go to both? I'll use a sandbox to confirm the chop values.

Oracleing MC for Colossus gives us less of an advantage (compared to BTS) because the base cost is reduced by 1/3 from 450b to 300b. So IMO we need to go for it fast, and thus plan 2 to get Colossus by ~T91 and which also gets out 3 workers in the process so it won't lag our development much.

Agreed, I'll pre-mine and then road, I guess. Not sure about 3E; it's slightly shorter to Smurf, but it's in the borders from 2.5" so I have no idea. I'll also try to remember to check when Smurf's borders are due to pop, since that will probably affect the hammers from 2SE.

Oh, and the tech costs sheet that we have does not show that reduction, so we need to be aware for any other changes. We will also need to build in the Known Civ Tech bonuses at some point (or just run research by feel).

Ruff: depends if you've got anything else to do with that space...