RBPitboss #2 Athlete4life10 & Kalin

[novice]

Thanks for sharing. So you're keeping this in your private thread because...?

[kalin]

*** Disclaimer: This is not to be quoted, or posted outside of this thread ***

This is just my 2 cents, for the lurkers and spulla if they ever get to read this. At the very least they need to be allowed to move this turn and given how Jowy is claiming the 2nd half, by right I'd say the 2nd half by right is owed to Spulla. However if Jowy had attempted negotiation first rather than claiming things might have gone differently (publicly speaking). In the end I think the rules state teams have to agree to a turn split. We don't have any way to make them agree. Personally India deserves the 2nd half but that's in large part to their unwillingness to play the turn until any potential enemy has played (they've been doing that for a while now). They haven't really given another team a chance to take the 2nd half. Anyways it's best an arbritrator rule before Jowy really screws himself diplomatically by continuing to be defensive and mulish rather than objectively looking at this (that can happen when things heat up).

I actually disagree on India deserving the 2nd half. I thought initially that Jowy had a rather weak argument, but now I buy it. His example (please check again) is rather good. If you move some units, but not others, and you get declared, why should you get the 2nd half simply because you have units left to move? Jowy can argue that he also has units left to move. What if you move all units, but don't end turn?

I am amused because India took great care it seems to be last in turn, only to be mixed in this controversy The irony...

Kalin

[athlete4life10]

Thanks for sharing. So you're keeping this in your private thread because...?

Because I don't want my opinion mixed up in this, there's already lots of arguments going on, one more opinion isn't going to help. I'm also not the most eloquent sometimes, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't go say something that might get me in trouble later. Honestly, it's nobodies fault, just the current rule. A split turn is right for war, but there has to be a more fair way to split the turn. I think anyways. Kalin's post above is actually valid.

I've looked at us declaring war on T100 from a few different angles and there was no difference whether we took the first or second half. Atleast not initially. Who knows what could happen 10 turns down the road. The MM aspect of playing 2nd isn't really needed as an attacker and I don't really care that Spulla would get that as we'll get our promotions sooner which would be more important to us.

Anyways, I think what was getting to me most, was this was degenerating into an anger-filled argument rather than a discussion. I'm not fond of getting upset over simple stuff like this (even though I sometimes do!!!).

[athlete4life10]

K so with the pause and what not going on there was initially some diplo flurry which I'll try to get posted at some point, no promises though. After that initial bit though it was dead. It gave us some time to think and we've tentatively decided to see if we can land The Great Lighthouse! I've put together a tentative plan where it completes on the interturn of T127/T128 in a city that isn't even founded yet! I shall try and post the plan (it's been under some revisions already, and probably needs more) shortly after I do the T100 overview (trust me it will be easier to understand with a few pictures).

[athlete4life10]

Catching up on some diplo. Tying things off with the Koreans:

Dear Athlete and Kalin,

As requested we won't gift resources to India in the near future.

Broker forwarded me the discussion you had with him and it seems you're not that intrested in settling the island in the near future and maybe discuss with Whosit about it. I'd like to avoid another land front with Whosit. One alternative is that we try to settle the whole island, but I'm afraid we won't be fast enough alone and I'm not sure, if you would find it acceptable. However I've a cunning plan to suggest.

What would you say if you gift a Settler+Worker to us as soon as possible. We even could loan Galley for this purpose so you don't need immediately one. We'll settle "your" city on the Whosit side of the Island and improve the tiles for some 10-20 turns (time is agreeable) and then gift the city to you. This way you don't had to agree anything about the settling rights with Whosit (i.e. can keep good relationship with him) and save some maintenance money when we improve your city up and running. If someone asks about the city gift, we could tell that we did it to improve our relationshp with you. This wouldn't even be a lie.

Best regards,
plako

Kalin has sent an acknowledgement back. We did get a chance to briefly discuss and we are going to decline. We should be able to settle it in a reasonable time frame while telling Rome not to.

[athlete4life10]

I don't think this has been posted so here it is:

To Greece:

Jowy,

How do the defenses in Thebes look like? Do we need to move some HAs
there and gift them? We don't want you to lose that city!

We will need to coordinate a lot better now that the war has started.
I have in mind something like a list of all visible Indian units each
turn. We should probably move after you, so that our mounted units
don't remain exposed.

Kalin

Greece to us:

Hey,

I have 7 phalanx, 1 warrior, 1 spear, 2 chariots and 1 archer in Thebes. Next turn I will whip a spear and later on will move another archer over there. Btw I just noticed that India moved some of their units away from Hampton Roads, they are probably reinforcing Chancelorsville. They only have an archer and a spear there. I had an idea, maybe we should split our forces in two and go for Hampton Roads and have our Chancelorsville troops act as a decoy and a pillaging party? It would be a good move IF we can't take Chancelorsville with all our troops, but it'd be a bad move if we split up when we could have taken Chancelorsville. Does Whosit or Nakor have a scouting unit nearby that can see Chancelorsville's defenders?

~ Jowy

Us to Greece:

Hi Jowy,

We were thinking something along those lines as well. In order to do
so we will absolutely need to communicate very closely. Do you have
any idea of what the troops are in Hampton Roads as well as
Chancellorsville? We need to formulate a specific gameplan for
multiple options:

1) Race to the horses and pillage.

2) Take Chancellorsville then get to strat resource to pillage

3) Take Hampton Roads then get to strat resource to pillage

4) Take Hampton Roads & Chancellorsville (Hey it could happen!!!).

I've got some good thoughts simmering I just need to find some details
on their troops in their cities so if you know that please share asap.
Thanks,

Athlete

And I forwarded that one off to him again last night with this note attached:

Hi Jowy,

We never received a response on this and with the pause, that would
have been a perfect time to try and formulate something togehter.
Given our now lack of time and communication we should probably
beeline for horses though if you are able to tell the defences in
Hampton Roads on T99 (current turn) and let us know asap we still
might be able to take that city in the process. Let us know what you
can.


Athlete for A/K
Ottomans

[athlete4life10]

Exhange with India:

Dear Rebel Alliance,

Remember that we have a NAP that lasts through Turn 100. You guys can't attack us until the start of Turn 101! Just because Jowy got anxious and jumped the gun doesn't mean you can break our prior agreements.

Sullla
The Killer Angels

Us to them:

Dear Killer Angels,

Still trying to get together with Athlete to formulate a response.
Rest assured however that we will not break any agreements with you.
Regarding the exact details of our NAP, I think you are slightly
incorrect. Here's the exact quote:

"We reject your offer to renew the NAP and thereby declare you war...
just kidding Thanks for the reminder. Your points are good, so
let's renew our NAP starting turn 80 for 20 turns until turn 100."

My interpretation of "starting turn 80 for 20 turns", is that turn 80
was covered and T99 is the 20th turn.

Best,

Kalin for Team A/K of the Ottomans

Them to us:

Dear Rebel Alliance,

Hmmm, we interpreted our NAP as lasting until the end of Turn 100, but it's not a huge deal. I guess we'll be seeing you on the battlefield next turn then... Still not too late to change your mind though - no need to waste your horses fighting someone else's war!

Sullla
The Killer Angels

Us to them:

Hello Killer Angels,

Understood about the confidentiality agreement between us. We will
continue to hold to all promises and agreements with you and know you
will do the same.

Regarding the soon to be end of our NAP and your proposal to renew. We
will have to respectfully decline at this particular junction. I'm
sure you are not surprised by that. It does give us hope that you
appear to be willing to resume friendly relations if this turns just
into a blip on the radar.

As for our warrior scouting your lands, why shouldn't we even if we
continued peaceful relations? Our intention was to reveal your cities
for trade routes. Also, we took to heart your past recommendations on
the importance of scouting, so we were trying to defog as much land as
possible.

By the way, we are not sure why a warrior scouting/defogging land
would set alarm bells off. Same with the chariot, who's a 2-move unit
ideal for scouting around this time with many barbs roaming around. Of
course, all this it's a moot point now as you've seen our stack

To answer your question "why?", there's nothing too complicated. We
simply "fear you are becoming too advanced" We'd rather not have
somebody become the winner in the medieval era. Helping Greece to slow
you down seemed only natural given that Greece probably can not handle
it by itself. Even if it goes your way, it will save us money from
unit cost Okay that's not great logic to then go and lose all those
hammers but there's a positive side to everything.

Athlete and Kalin,
Ottomans

And them to us:

Dear Rebel Alliance,

How much of a "blip on the radar" this will be depends a lot on what you do, obviously. Opportunistic strike can potentially be overlooked. Long-term, unending war would be another story. We urge you to think about just how many horses you want to send to fight Jowy's war for him.

Sullla
The Killer Angels

[athlete4life10]

Actually reading through the rest of the e-mails theres been nothing worthy of posting. Most of it is discussion about the hold up / turn order. There was an interesting note from Mali though that made it seem like India was willing to cooperate with Mali and let them have the Iron in their south and they'd take Greece's while offering the HRE 3 of Mali's city in return for their declaration on Mali. They're certainly working the diplomacy. It's fortunate for us we planned all this pretty well in advance. It almost got to the point where they could have actually defended against all of us at once. Even now it's going to be difficult to rid the world of them. Rome will probably tip the balance but 10 turns seems so far away right now !!!

[regoarrarr]

So has the lull in posting here been an effort to keep your war plans secret from any lurkers? If/when the war declaration happens, do you plan on posting in here?

[kalin]

So has the lull in posting here been an effort to keep your war plans secret from any lurkers? If/when the war declaration happens, do you plan on posting in here?

Hi Rego,

While I had some suspicion that maybe some lurkers may have tipped India of our intentions, the lull in posting here was not due to that. We simply seem to have gotten very busy. We plan to update as usual.

Speaking of updates:

Dear Killer Angels,

We will declare you war this turn. From a technical perspective, it
will be in the first half of the turn so we will use that in the
future if that's ok with you. I actually think we may have no choice
given you're already at war with Jowy and he has the first half. We
hope that this war would not damage our relationship forever and that
one day we will collaborate again.

Best,
Kalin for Team A/K of the Ottomans

War! We moved our troops and coordinated with Jowy to leave most options open and keep India guessing on what we'll do. Meanwhile Dantski declared on the same turn and moved his units. Things are on the move, we'll post updates soon.

Kalin