[SPOILERS] Thoth and Mardoc Pretend Piracy Pays as Pacal of Portugal

[Thoth]

Peter (Phi, Exp) of Mali (Ind, Skirm, Mint) Ind/Phi Mints now give +25% unit production as a bonus instead of +10% cash. Expansive for the cheap workers and cash buildings.

It's your game, of course. But this is the one that sounds more interesting to me. Maybe Oracle into MC - forges become half-HE everywhere - pick up HA or swords or maybe even skirmishers and go kill someone.

The other two early-Phi options have potential, too (Egypt, Rome). That seems like the trait that's most likely to be fun to test, anyway - good chance it's OP.

New Phi is definitely fun in SP. It may need a bit of a nerf but I'm not convinced of that yet. Fin is still very very good (it's now +1 commerce on plots that provide 3 or more commerce) and there is going to be quite a lot of land per player given the settings requested so expansion traits will be handy (with three traits available it is possible to have Imp, Exp, and Pro all at the same time).

Pete of Mali I haven't actually played with in SP (yet) but I agree, he looks pretty damn good on paper. The MC slingshot is nerfed a bit though: Ind only give +35% to Wonder production plus MC is cheap enough to tech to in reasonable time (especially if skipping the monk techs).

OTOH, I'll want some means of popping borders besides 60h barracks which means at least Myst if not an early religion as well. Religion gets both a buff and a nerf in SMEG mod: +1 gold as well as +1 commerce per religion (if you have no state relgion) or +1/+1 for the state religion. So you're getting gold even without the shrine. But....you don't actually need a religion. None of the religious civics require a state (or any for that matter) religion. For the most part they provide bonuses to Temples, Monasteries, Conservatories and Cathedrals. Note that temples ect are no longer religion specific and no longer require any religion, just the appropriate tech. Their effects have also been changed.

[flugauto]

[Mardoc]

New Phi is definitely fun in SP. It may need a bit of a nerf but I'm not convinced of that yet. Fin is still very very good (it's now +1 commerce on plots that provide 3 or more commerce) and there is going to be quite a lot of land per player given the settings requested so expansion traits will be handy (with three traits available it is possible to have Imp, Exp, and Pro all at the same time).

Fair point. There's always value in land.

The MC slingshot is nerfed a bit though: Ind only give +35% to Wonder production plus MC is cheap enough to tech to in reasonable time (especially if skipping the monk techs).

Huh. I actually like him better that way, Priesthood is a pretty significant diversion.

OTOH, I'll want some means of popping borders besides 60h barracks which means at least Myst if not an early religion as well. Religion gets both a buff and a nerf in SMEG mod: +1 gold as well as +1 commerce per religion (if you have no state relgion) or +1/+1 for the state religion. So you're getting gold even without the shrine. But....you don't actually need a religion. None of the religious civics require a state (or any for that matter) religion. For the most part they provide bonuses to Temples, Monasteries, Conservatories and Cathedrals. Note that temples ect are no longer religion specific and no longer require any religion, just the appropriate tech. Their effects have also been changed.

Hmm. That's going to take some time to wrap my head around.

starting screenshot

Oh my, more changes. No free commerce from any water?

I guess I don't see much reason to move, plains hill start and two foods first ring seems pretty good. Annoying to have one tile of sea but I'm sure another city can take it.

[Thoth]

thanks.

Scout 9-3 then either sip or 1 east for the coastal spot I think.

Ag first

[spacetyrantxenu]

plains hill start

Plains hill settlements are now unnecessary. You'll get two base hammers from each city anyway. So settle wherever you like.

[Thoth]

The MC slingshot is nerfed a bit though: Ind only give +35% to Wonder production plus MC is cheap enough to tech to in reasonable time (especially if skipping the monk techs).

Huh. I actually like him better that way, Priesthood is a pretty significant diversion.

Henge is both better (monuments give commerce when running Paganism) and more expensive (150 vs 120 hammers) so I'm liking it better than Oracle as an early wonder target. I'm not convinced that I want to shoot for an early wonder other than "lots of workers and settlers"

Hmm. That's going to take some time to wrap my head around.

Yeah, there are a *lot* of changes in the mod.

starting screenshot

Oh my, more changes. No free commerce from any water?[/quote]

No. River tiles require a Pier (20h) in order to gain the +1 commerce (including forested tiles). Sea tiles gain +2 food with a pier, and +2 commerce with a Lighthouse (40 h)

I guess I don't see much reason to move, plains hill start and two foods first ring seems pretty good. Annoying to have one tile of sea but I'm sure another city can take it.

mod gives 2h to the capital city tile regardless of underlying terrain. Hill site good for defence, 1 East means coastal for Lighthouse + either Quay/Breakwater or Harbour/Customs house or Shipyard/Drydocks. With very limited water tiles and a probable commerce focus in the cap, Harbour/Customs house is most likely. Unless Portugal (Pacal of Portugal is very good).

[Thoth]

plains hill start

Plains hill settlements are now unnecessary. You'll get two base hammers from each city anyway. So settle wherever you like.

We could settle on the corn for a 3f/2h start.

[Mardoc]

or 1 east for the coastal spot I think.

So...what's it take to make a coastal tile worthwhile in SMEG? Obviously they're not worthwhile at the moment. Tech? Tech + building(s)?

Ag first

Plains hill settlements are now unnecessary. You'll get two base hammers from each city anyway. So settle wherever you like. nod

That's a good change. The city defense bonus might still be useful - although if we're fighting defensively at our cap, something's gone very wrong elsewhere.

edit: hah, much crosspost

[Thoth]

or 1 east for the coastal spot I think.

So...what's it take to make a coastal tile worthwhile in SMEG? Obviously they're not worthwhile at the moment. Tech? Tech + building(s)?

See above.

Sea tiles start with a base of 0/0/0 yield. Fresh water gives +1 food. Other than that and netted seafood, you get yields based on city infra.

That's a good change. The city defense bonus might still be useful - although if we're fighting defensively at our cap, something's gone very wrong elsewhere.

Agreed.

Plains hill sites are still good for expansion cities but are optional for the capital.

In place has 3 grass and 1 plains hill. 1 E has 1 grass and 3 plains hills + unknown tiles in the fog. Scout can reveal the fogged tiles before settling. Both sites have 6 forests. 1E has one fewer riverside grass tiles.

[Thoth]

edit: hah, much crosspost

Booyeah!