(September 16th, 2015, 13:26)von Adlercreutz Wrote: If you're correct that sounds quite nice, I mean, we don't have imp or exp. Then again our capital is at s2 while Rem has s4 cap, but this way we get to work the strong resource tiles faster.
I might've missed someone as I'm not doing full C&D, but I believe the general picture should be correct. Doesn't seem too far fetched either as a lot of the first settler(/worker) is built with food anyways. On that note though I believe Grimace (Boudicca/Japan) founded his second city this turn.
As for t27:
I moved Fintourist to the hill and got a nice surprise, but one that will definitely give us some head aches too.
That's an un-jungled riverside gems. Generally I'd say that it's fine to ignore commerce in the beginning in favour of foodhammers, but that represents enough research (and with low enough opportunity cost in working it), that it's worth considering (but probably not settling?) as early as our third city. Where to actually settle is also a difficult question.
* N-NW (of gems) might be the strongest location, but that invalidates C4 and most northern marble/crabs locations we could look at.
* NW would be nice, but again, orphans the fish.
* The scouts current position would be a commerce monster with 3! gem tiles. It has 3 worthless desert tiles though and means we'll have to kiss gold good bye or settle a really aggressive city. It also means we'll have 3 decent tiles, almost next to the capital that we might never use.
* 1S the scout looks decent. Again, it's quite far from capital
* Finally I see 1W of gems as an option. Decent early city, doesn't affect dot map visibly negatively. Might mean that we'll have 3 gems and gold in four different cities however, which doesn't sound great from a city specialisation view. We're also packing cities really tight considering we're creative.
I haven't ended turn as the scout still has 1 movement point. I was going SE with him, but as an argument could be made about what we're missing out on if we would settle somewhere NW of the new gems, I'll leave you a little bit of time to comment in case you've changed your mind and want to check for seafood still.
Also, the warrior is on the future city hill, doing a decent job of spawnbusting/sentry atm. We could move it 1NW to be sure to protect Bertil who's roading outside our borders. Feel free to change this if you so please.
Btw. You named the workers Anders and Bertil, you don't happen to be a Finno-Swede do you?
Ok, so I'm trying to find out if there's any point in considering anything other than clam-city as city number 3.
When I did my first sims I was quite happy with it creating a tight early empire and not requiring that much early worker attention. I also had an idea that an early Great Scientist from there might be useful in speeding up Currency (probably by bulbing alphabet).
Since then I've realised that while a GS has its uses, tech-speed in this game will be too quick for it to matter as far as Currency e.t.a. goes if we're on a reasonably tight beeline. (In one test run I got Currency as early as t71 which might even be a record for me).
To get a baseline to compare alternatives to I've continued on old sims and run them up to t50 where we could be at this situation:
Here Clam-city was founded t40 and I could settle a city 1W of gems on t53 and a city on marble on t55.
On t50 I've got 1 axe, 1 spear, 3 warriors and 5 workers.
As an alternative to this I tried going with city number 3 next to the gems (I'm not sure it's the best gems alternative, but it's a decent snowball and might therefore make for a fair comparison). On t50 that alternative could look like this:
Gems city was founded on t43, Clam-city on t49 and a city on marble would be founded on t56.
On t50 I've got 1 axe, 3 warriors and 5 workers (so missing a spear...).
I'm not saying that either play-through is perfect or that cities needs to be in the spots I've chosen here, but we still need to decide in something like 3 turns what we want to go for and I'm not seeing this as being very obvious what would be better...
I attached an updated save (with a switch to slavery on the right turn this time) in case you (or anyone else) have time and wants to test things out.
I open up the save and see nothing that is particularly noteworthy.
The capital is looking the same way it has for a few turns while we've been building our settler.
Note that we only have two improved tiles, but then we've got two pretty good unimproved ones as well that we could use in a pinch.
After moving the settler to our second city location under the warrior and having had Bertil finish the road and Albert joining his worker colleague, we have a situation such as depicted below. What's neat is that after the city is founded, both workers will be able to use the road and thereby move to pigs and start pasturing the same turn. That pasture will then finish next turn so that the city only works an unimproved tile for 1t. By roading the pigs they will then be able to do basically the same thing with wheat, getting it online the same turn we grow to size 2.
You can also spot in the picture that I revolted to slavery.
Slavery is not something that we'll use that extensively in this mod and setup, but if for nothing else, then at least for emergency whips it'll be really helpful. It's also good to get the anarchy out of the way while we're still only on 1 city and working 2 tiles...
Speaking of anarchy, this was our demos before revolting (not that great now, but we'll improve quickly (I hope)).
I'll also post an image of our poor scout who is bound to be attacked next turn.
And then, finally, we got graphs on REM this turn. I'll do an image dump now and then come back and analyse them when I've got the time and energy.
(September 18th, 2015, 09:11)The Black Sword Wrote: Do you guys have your micro for the turns up to now shown somewhere? I'm curious why you built the settler with the food box almost half full?
Don't think we've written down micro really anywhere as its basically just based on sims, will do a crude version here below though.
As for why: We started a warrior growing (as quickly as possible) from size1 ->2. That was, however, interrupted as we started on our second worker. After the worker was done we wanted to finish the warrior due to safety reasons and not wanting to lose hammers to decay. We could of course have started another warrior/barracks while growing to size 3, but I'm fairly certain that working two extra food hammers from unimproved ivory wouldn't have made up in time for the extra 2(?)t it would've taken to grow. Basically you could therefore say that our opening strategy has been to get our second city up and running (working two improved food resources) as quickly as possible.
Rough initial micro plan:
t0: found city - start worker - work unimproved forested ivory for 1/3/0
t10: worker finishes and starts farming riverside corn - start warrior - work corn for growth
t14: farm finishes
t16: grow to size 2 (+2f in box) - work corn and ivory while waiting on cow pasture to finish
* I realise here that we could've actually built the warrior in this first instance by working ivory for one turn while corn was being improved so probably a move from us.
t19: pasture finishes and starts to be worked
t22: 2nd worker finishes, moves into position to chop. 8f goes into the city while waiting 1t on warrior to finish
t23: BW is in (without overflow, so if we had worked ivory earlier we would've had to omit the wheel to get BW in (same) time). Warrior is finished and settler started at 12 (8+4)h/t.
t25: first chop is in, worker B moves to finish road for trade routes and worker movement after city is founded.
t27: second chop is in. Settler from 75/100 -> 107/100
t28: Settler moves into position (theoretically city2 could've been founded this turn if we had roared the city tile, but it wouldn't speed up anything as we're revolting into slavery anyhow).
t29: City 2 founded. Capital uses overflow to 2t a warrior while growing to size 3 in the same time.
Apart from finishing the warrior with the Ivory, growing to size 3 doesn't seem too bad to me. It takes two extra turns to grow but the extra yield from the ivory also shaves a turn off (40h from chops 19h from size 2 at overflow and 42h from 3t at size 3). So you're essentially lose 1t at the second city and gain 1t at the capital.
That half full food box is just a tell-tale sign that something could possibly be improved somewhere. There's always trade offs of course, it's up to you guys if they would have been worth it.
(September 18th, 2015, 11:12)The Black Sword Wrote: Apart from finishing the warrior with the Ivory, growing to size 3 doesn't seem too bad to me. It takes two extra turns to grow but the extra yield from the ivory also shaves a turn off (40h from chops 19h from size 2 at overflow and 42h from 3t at size 3). So you're essentially lose 1t at the second city and gain 1t at the capital.
That half full food box is just a tell-tale sign that something could possibly be improved somewhere. There's always trade offs of course, it's up to you guys if they would have been worth it.
I believe I actually (once upon a time...) checked if we could finish the warrior by working ivory instead of corn, but I probably only did it at the tail end i.e. when corn was already improved and then that pushed growth one turn later. So yeah, this definitely looks like a thing we could've improved.
Ah well, mistakes happen and I won't claim that I'm anywhere close to perfect. Might be good to come back at some point and see how much we could've improved the start by, but doubt I'll do it anytime soon, better to improve on the moves going forward.
[Another thing that also could be investigated is if that change could somehow improve worker management (or if it makes it worse). So far we've basically wasted 4t (two for movement and two building what fairly early on turned out to be a somewhat unnecessary road)].
In the east Fintourist survived the wolf, but took some damage so it might be time to heal him for a little bit? (Moved him to a forested hill first though to reveal a few more tiles):
But that's probably not what most people find most interesting.
We also founded our 2nd city!
I tentatively named it Lapua after the battle of 14th July 1808 where von Adlercrreutz had better luck than at Oravainen and managed to chase the enemy away.
(Feel free to change the name, but I'd prefer it if Siikajoki and Pyhäjoki are cities next to rivers...)
move from us.
