RBPitboss #2 Athlete4life10 & Kalin

[athlete4life10]

Rome to CoW:

Friends and Allies,

Since it doesn't appear that reality is going to bend in my favor, we're all stuck with the results of my negligence. Just to keep everyone on the same page, my troops are currently 3 tiles south of Fredericksburg, outside of Killer Angel territory. Since the element of surprise is now completely lost, would it be more useful if I headed in another direction? Perhaps join up with another stack?

I can't even tell you what troops were in Fredericksburg. I have to admit that I freaked out and declared war before I got a look, but I did see that the top unit was a Great General (probably attached to an Axeman?). It would be kind of nice if I could actually say "the defenses were too strong, anyway!" but I don't even know.

To victory (yes, still!),

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

Kalin getting in on the action:

I think threatening Fred is still the way to go. Fred is pretty close
to Anti so moving towards Fred while still threatening Anti would be
best imo.

Kalin

Greece to CoW:

Hey,

That's too bad! I'd imagine we'd usually reload in a situation like this, but considering that it's Sullla and Speaker who you declared on, I doubt that'll happen We all agreed on an arbiter so nothing we can do about it! Anyway if Sullla and Speaker in the end do win this game, it'll forever be questionable had they achieved that without extra help.

Go for Fredericksburg. We'll still be threatening 3 cities and 1 vital strategic resource.. They now know what's incoming, but they still don't necessary have enough troops to defend everything.

For victory! Keep hope alive!
~ Jowy

Note Jowy's questionable remark regarding Spulla. Under normal circumstances I'd have probably edited that out but I've decided in terms of the diplomacy I'll just be a historian and post things as is (editing out personal info or foul language as needed ). I also tried to discuss what seems to be his vendetta privately but Jowy seems hell bent on holding a grudge against the leaders of India.

Mali to CoW:

Sorry Nakor but I disagree with taking out the spear that killed your chariot. I'd just be losing the axe after taking it out and wasting units like that isn't the idea right now.

This I agree with.

HRE to CoW:

Ok, then we don't attack the spear.

Whosit, to bad this happened! I must admit that I took some time finding out how to declare war as well at the start of this camapign.
I agree, you should still go to Fred'burg.

Going to destoy a copper mine now...

Nakor of HRE

And again HRE:

Copper is disconnected!

And lastly Kalin:

I am not saying we should kill that spear, but note that with the
copper gone, they will not be able to replace that spear.

Kalin

[Shoot the Moon]

Lurker's comment: Thanks for the screenies.

[athlete4life10]

Sent an e-mail to the CoW:

Hello Allies,

With catapults rolling out next turn I'm not entirely certain how to proceed. I believe the Mali/HRE stack should move 1E onto the hill to threaten Fredricksburg next turn and join in the attack with Rome's Praets on T111. Unless there was a cat whipped from Fred this turn, none will be able to reach either stacks.

The mali stack I'm thinking should move to the wheat 1N of Getty. We're not going to be able to take Ghetty but it should force them to keep some forces split.

Greece your 6-7 stack that you are bringing soon shoudl probably threaten Hampton Roads. It won't survive long against cats so you could probably move it in and withdraw through the terrain there easily enough as need be. If they withdraw then you've razed a city!

May the force be with us all!

Athlete for A/K
The Rebel Alliance

[athlete4life10]

Well by now, I'm sure you've gotten the big news in regarding the war. I'll update later on that.

For now, currency in onto meditation in 1. Barb city is ours, to be renamed Corellia. Library at Yavin IV complete, onto a barracks.

[athlete4life10]

Diplomatic updates!

Mali to CoW:

Hi Guys,

I have made peace with India. While I don't expect you guys to be happy about it, I feel the war was hurting my civ's development too badly and even with the generous Ottoman offer in regards to finances I feel this will be far more beneficial.

I insisted on not giving away any CoW plans or unit info for the next 10- turns.

HRE I will be returning 2 axes to Krondor.

-Dantski

HRE to CoW:

Hey Dantski,

What is this?
I though this was THE WAY to get more room for your civilization.
I must say that I'm very dissapointed, since we were into this together and Whosit's troops just landed to join the attack.
Will you tell us what India offered you for peace?
I guess it's military support against HRE...

Is there a way we can get you to reconsider?

Nakor of HRE

Me to CoW:

WoW! I must say this is very disappointing. This is not at all how I
expected peace discussions to go. We are in the drivers seat even if
we have to be careful. If you were interested in making peace you
should have discussed with us in advance. Rome has just landed and we
should have been threatening multiple locations but now only have some
units near Fredricksburg and are outnumbered. This isn't at all good,
hanging us out to dry. It's not really in our interest to be at war
but it's not in our interest to have India run away with the game
either.


Athlete for A/K
The Rebel Alliance

Greece to CoW:

Dear members of CoW,

I'm deeply sorry. Dantski was the one who started the whole idea of attacking India, I never questioned his motives. I had my suspections early on that he was playing both sides, just like India was with myself and Dantski. Now wiser, I see that perhaps Dantski only ever wanted to attack India because he didn't know would India side with me or him once it's time for their expansion phase. So now that it's pretty much public knowledge that me and India are no longer in good terms, he pulls out of the war. That's my theory anyway, and I am also sending this to Dantski as I want to give him a chance to correct me and I wish not to talk behind his back regardless of this betrayal.

Honestly I don't know what should we do. We've achieved our goal in slowing India down, but if we retreat now then they'll easily be able to recover. We were very close to victory, soon I would have razed Hampton and without that missclick we could have razed Fredericksburg.
Dantski is just stupid if he's really making peace because of economy, as all of the economical threats in this game are in the war and they aren't doing any better than he is. On top of that, now he wasted all that time he used on military instead of techs. There must be another reason behind this, maybe what I speculated on in the first paragraph.

Dantski, how could you just throw in the towel like this? You're now siding with India, who just a while ago were trying to get HRE to attack you! And HRE didn't betray you even though they had the chance, but as a thanks you betray them?

~ Jowy

Nice of Jowy to lay some blame. Purely his style

Mali to CoW:

All I can say is I have not been playing both sides and I did provide info on India units and cities. Also when I signed peace I had at least half of CoW's offensive units, I think its unfair to suggest I've put less into the war than anyone.

As for being close to victory I completely disagree. It was only a matter of 3-4 turns before they eliminated our stacks with catapults.

And I'm not siding with India, I'm siding with myself. Me and HRE have a brand new NAP.

As for the personal remarks. well you should probably keep those to yourself.

Rome to CoW:

Friends and Allies,

While I do not think that your logic is flawed, Dantski, realize that it does put a bad taste in our mouths that you have made peace unilaterally without discussing your concerns with us in advance. Had you done so, we may have either come up with a new plan, or perhaps even made a tactical withdrawl. Your actions have led to the destruction of Holy Rome's forces, left my own at the mercy of Speaker and Sullla, and quite possibly left Greece vulnerable to a counter-attack. If it would have been difficult to take one of the Killer Angel's cities before, it may be quite impossible now, since they can more easily concentrate their forces.

That said, I realize that you have been on the front lines of the war, and I commend the effort you have put into it. However, as you said, you chose to save yourself first and foremost. I respect that, but to do so suddenly, without discussion or warning, will make it more difficult to trust you in the future. The rest of us need to decide what to now. Making peace, or even a cease-fire, may be the best of several bad options.

-Whosit, Galactic Emperor

[athlete4life10]

HRE to TMT:
Note that the HRE is not part of the TMT, nor does he know about it but conveniently that's who he e-mailed .

Hi guys,

Due to Danski's peace offer, his stack was transported out of Indian territory.
That gave them the chance to kill our entire stack.
So we don't have any units in the area anymore.
A new stack can be build but that will take a lot of turns before we can arrive in Indian lands again.
I don't want to abandon this war, but at the moment I can't do anything.

What do you guys think I should do? Signing peace sounds like the best thing to do right now.

What makes me really mad about the whole Dantski situation is that he NEVER mentioned his problems to me or in mails to us.
He didn't consult us before making peace, but only tries to save himself, while we all suffer from this war economically.
Really don't know what to make of it, but it makes trusting him in the future a bit more difficult.

Hope to hear your thoughts regarding this situation.

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE

HRE to TMT:

Friends,

I've thought things over and I must ask KA for a cease fire or peace.
Do we want get a peace deal for all of us together?
I'd be willing to do some negotiating.

Besides that, I do ssuggest that we keep close ties between our nations and try to help each other out when problem arrise.

Kind regards,
Nakor of HRE

Rome to TMT + HRE:

Dear Friends and Allies,

I am leaving Dantski out of this message for the time being since I assume that we are all still uncertain on where we stand with him. For what it's worth, he probably wasn't too far off in his belief that with the advent of Catapults, we would have found it very hard to fight the Killer Angels. Given the circumstances, I think that we should seek peace with K.A. so that we can focus on our own growth and development.

There are a few things we can do, though small, to try and harm Killer Angels. Obviously, none of us will sign Open Borders with them. We should pressure Korea and the New Republic (formerly IKZ [Inca]) to close borders with Korea. If Dantski will keep closed borders with Killer Angels, and does not trade with them, we should leave him alone for now, especially since he has a NAP with Nakor (otherwise, I'd probably march against him myself). If he refuses, we sanction him, too. I think that I can convince Korea to break with K.A. They sought Open Borders with me not too long ago, and I think that they want to put the conflict of the past behind us, for now. Not sure about the New Republic, but if the Rebel Alliance and I pressure them, we can probably get them to agree.

It is unfortunate that we have not been able to deal lasting damage to Sullla and Speaker. However, with Danstki out, my forces CANNOT do any damage. If I try to advance without support, they will cut me down with Catapults and their GG units. We could wait for Jowy to develop Construction, but that's time while the Killer Angels keep building up. While unpalatable, I think that our best is to expand, research, and try and come back stronger. We should all try to get Construction as soon as reasonably possible because we cannot fight Sullla without Siege.

I know that this isn't what you want to hear, but I think that it would be suicide for us to continue. Even if the Killer Angels never counter-attack, Romali, the New Republic, and Korea will be expanding and growing stronger, while we will stagnate. So we should ALL offer Sullla/Speaker peace without concessions. We will give none, we will ask none (because they will make none). Ideally, we make peace without a NAP agreement, but we can probably afford a short-term one since we all need to rebuild, as it is.

What think you?

Signed truly,

-Whosit, Galactic Emperor

Me to TMT + HRE:

Hello Allies,

It's sad news about the peace but unfortuneately all CoW members are
not created equal. Regardless we shall proceed onwards. At this point
Whosit, Nakor and myself agree that we should present a unified front
and ask for a ceasefire or peace treaty. Preferrable peace. For
Greece's sake there should be some sort of NAP in place whether
shortterm or not. We do need Greece's agreement to go ahead with this
though.

Jowy if you can confirm you're ok with this that would be great. The
sooner the better.

Does anybody else have thoughts to add?

Athlete for A/K
The Rebel Alliance

Greece to TMT + HRE:

Hey guys,

I'm in favour of negotiating peace together instead of seperately. We have a better chance for me to get a peace deal together than if I attempt alone It's beneficial for us all that Killer Angels won't use all those units to invade my lands, although if it comes down to that I will put up a fight. Ultimately though they would win that fight. They might not want to invade me though, but instead work on resurrecting their economy. Anyway I still think it might be a better idea to negotiate a peace deal together if possible

I'm really dissapointed how this turned out, but it was definately worth a shot and I have no regrets. We still slowed them down, although especially myself and Dantski also slowed ourselves down. Most importantly I've befriended you guys. Although India dodged a bullet this time, it was very close and I doubt any of us would want to be - alone - in the same situation :P
Let's stay close. We now know we can work together and can trust eachother. That's a very good payoff for losing a couple of units.

~ Jowy

Rome to TMT + HRE:

Dear Allies,

Athlete has asked me to draft a letter to the Killer Angels, so here it is:

"To the Honorable Speaker and Sullla,

While this may seem odd considering the message I sent you just the other day, I come asking for peace between the Killer Angels, myself, and the other civilizations with which you are at war.

Securing Romali's exit from the war was a masterful stroke, but the rest of us remain united. While we are willing to continue the fight to drag you down, a decisive victory may now elusive, so we believe that it would be in the interest of all parties to agree to peace. True, you would be able to hold the rest of us off for quite some time, but surely it will not do your economy any good. Therefore, we propose that you make peace with all belligerent civilizations. We are also willing to sign a NAP with your civilization, as well, so that you need not fear another strike.

Prolonging this conflict will help none of us, so we hope that you will respond with due haste.

Sincerely yours,

The Galactic Empire, the Greek Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, the Rebel Alliance"

We are in a difficult position. We are not really in a position of strength, but our proposal cannot sound weak. I have done my best to sound strong and committed while also acknowledging our position. Please feel free to suggest changes, though I would like to have this letter sent before the current turn ends. As for myself, I will be getting my troops back on the boats. Hopefully to go home, but I can give them to Jowy if it looks like Spullla is out for blood.

-Whosit, Galactic Emperor

Me to TMT + HRE:

Overall this is a good message and should be sent with haste. There
are a couple things though.

Grammar. This part of the sentance: "a decisive victory may now
elusive" should say "be elusive".

As for the NAP I believe we need to stand as if we will accept nothing
less, or atleast for Jowy's sake there needs to be somewhat of a
peaceful timeframe given. Say something like 20 turns or so?

So maybe say something like we would like a 20 turn peace period to
reinforce the agreement? Even the current wording is OK but we should
suggest an NAP of 20 turns rather than say we would even accept one.

Anybody else have thoughts?


Athlete for A/K
The Rebel Alliance

After confirmations, basically that e-mail was sent and w received an acknowledgement from India:

"Message received, Whosit. Speaker and I will discuss your proposal and get back to you once we have an answer.

Sullla
The Killer Angels"

[athlete4life10]

Rome to TMT + HRE:

Still no response from team Killer Angel. Given that a whole turn has passed, they may just be stalling. I was hoping I could move my troops out of the area, but it looks like I'll have to stick around.

If anyone happens to catch them in-game, it might not be a bad idea to ask them what gives. Though we don't want to sound desperate, either. It looks like we'll have to plan on extended warfare for now, and hope for the best.

-Whosit, Galactic Emperor

Greece to TMT + HRE:

Hey,

I'm not sure how much prior you've had diplomacy with Spulla, but it's normal for them to take long even on much less important business than our NAP Anyway you should either load the praets back on the galleys or head north towards me. If they refuse peace, I'd welcome any help defending. Atm I'm treating this as a decline to our offer, moving troops to defensive positions etc. Might as well be ready for anything.

~ Jowy

Rome to TMT + HRE:

Jowy,


I haven't had much contact with them, but after I wrote my letter, I did recall that it took them two days to approve of Open Borders with me. My soldiers are loaded on the boats again, but I haven't moved the boats yet just because I don't want to waste time if I don't have to. I should be home before the timer hits the 12 hour mark, though, so if we hear nothing, I'll start heading back north.


Do you have any cities near the Azure Ring (inner sea)? I want to minimize my troops' trek if at all possible. If we end up getting a definite "no peace" from Sullla, I may want to gift the troops to you in order to minimize my costs, much as I'd hate to lose control of such a large chunk of my army, so I hope that will be alright.


Anyway, let us hope that our patience will be rewarded . . . . And prepare for the worst.


-Whosit, Galactic Emperor

Greece to TMT + HRE:

Hey,

About to capture a barbarian city on the coast. I have a chariot next to it, two warrior barbs defending. Got a phalanx on his way too in case chariot gets unlucky. Thank you very much for offering those troops! Better I fight back, the better it is for me, you and everyone else other than India. Anyway, I AM expecting atleast some kind of peace offer back from them. We'll see.
- Hide quoted text -


~ Jowy

[athlete4life10]

Rome has also sent this to just the TMT:

Dear Members of the Esteemed Mediterranean Alliance,

Wheels within wheels, indeed. This is a separate message because what I'm going to mention isn't for Holy Rome's ears. Now, I still think that the wisest move at this point is to cut our losses and get out. However, I had some specific thoughts in mind for "expansion." I don't really know what the northern region looks like, but is there still room for Jowy to expand there? I hope so, because I think that the Rebel Alliance and I could use this opportunity to knock some heads in the so-called "New Republic." It will take about a dozen turns to bring my 8 Praetorians all the way back, but in the meantime, I can build at least 8 more. Maybe more. As I mentioned, I could try and negotiate with Korea, maybe even extending our NAP. The Republic's power rating is still fairly low: I think that they are in full expansion mode, which has me worried. I know that the Rebels have a NAP until T150. I could wait, but I think that I could strike earlier, and then the Rebels could jump in and make some gains in the north. I am also still exploring Centralia. It is heavily jungled, so unless you have Iron Working, you may not want to expand there just yet. Calendar would also be useful, since there are Dyes, Sugar, Bananas, etc. Then there are the islands on the Great Sea. If we can try to hem the Killer Angels in as much as possible, we may be able to gain an advantage down the road.

-Whosit, Galactic Emperor

[athlete4life10]

Turn Recap:

3 more turns before Corellia comes out of revolt from capture.
HA in @ Kashyyyk, another HA due in 1 (chop came in last turn).
Meditation in, Construction ordered up and set to 0% research to save some gold.

[athlete4life10]

And sent a note off to only the TMT:

Greetings Allies,

I hope this finds you well. With the delay from KA (I'm not surprised about) Greece should certainly prepare it's defences. Hopefully you won't need it though.

Regarding our current alliance structure I'd like to propose the addition of the HRE. We can always take them down the road but right now they are a strong civ under good management, really without anywhere else to go. Given Mali's apparant lack of trustworthiness, India's skill level, Korea's a few steps behind and the expanding out of control Inca, I think this should put us on equal terms with the remaining 4 and in a better position for the long haul. HRE, Rome and myself can always clean up Korea, Rome and myself will leap on the Inca sooner than later which would leave us nicely in a 4 vs 2.

What do you guys think? I'd be happy to send a welcoming message along to the HRE if you guys want.

Athlete for A/K
The Rebel Alliance