[SPOILERS] Team SsS

[Sandover]

Turn 42:

Stitch found an undefended CBE city that just finished a worker. We can probably move in and raze it, but I'm inclined to let the opportunity pass by to take it with a spraetorian assault later on. If they're going to be this naive with their defenses I see no problem annexing all of their territority in due time. Thoughts?

[Sandover]

From Exploit;

Dear Sandover,

We hereby confirm our commitment to a grand alliance with SsS. Let the detailed planning begin.

I agree with your priority of claiming a known copper resource first. I also like your idea of connecting Srhine and Sand Peddler by roads and I will work towards that objective. If you research Sailing after Iron Working then I will have Writing.

Currently Tech knows the following techs Wheel, Agriculture, Mining, Animal Husbandry, Bronze Working. Next turn we will know Pottery. Now that we have a firm alliance, Tech will beeline towards Alphabet.

I agree with your assessment on using the war monger/researcher strategy going forward. Based upon information thus far, it would appear the most obvious strategy would be for me to keep friendly trade relations with the India/Aztec alliance while you launch an attack against Cath Bruig. If you do intend to attack Cath Bruig first then I will avoid trading with them.

Here is what I propose for our first tech trade deal when I have finished researching Alphabet (target Turn 75):

SsS trades: Fishing (72) + Iron Working (360) + Sailing (180) + Masonry (prerequisite for catapults) (144) (total 756 beakers)
Tech trades: Animal Husbandry (180) + Writing (216) + Alphabet (540) (total 936 beakers)

Hopefully we can trade for most of the rest of the Ancient Era techs.

What do you think?

Regards,
Exploit

My response;

Dear Exploit,

Cath Bruig does indeed make for a very likely target at this point, especially considering that they seem to lack interest in running successful diplomacy. Annexation of their territory would also serve to seal of your southern border from potential aggression. So far their defenses seems very naive, as Stitch just now gained visibility on an undefended city of theirs. It is size 1 and just completed a worker, so I reckon it could be razed easily, though I'd prefer to capture it later on once it has matured. My opinion can still be swayed though, in case you think it is a better move to cripple them early on.

The tech paths you have suggested makes sense, as long as Tech have no major need for Monuments.

Have you yet located any strategic resources and how is your process of expansion going?

Regards,
Sandover
Team SsS

[scooter]

Well that's... interesting. One benefit of letting them keep it would be it might get us a whole lot of diplomatic leverage. I'm not talking necessarily turn it into "give us this, this, and this and we'll let you live" - but more like we turn into the 'nice guy' for the moment, possibly getting more intel out of them. If they were foolish enough to leave it undefended then I'm not too worried about having to struggle to take it by force later.

They do seem totally uninterested in working/communicating with us, which is their loss.

[scooter]

After thinking it over a little more, why not send them a message something like this:

CBE,
We haven't heard from you much lately so we figured we'd send a quick message to see how things are going in your part of the world . We've come upon an undefended city of yours - we would urge you to be careful in the future, a less honorable civilization than our own would raze it, or at least threaten you with it in an instant.

Have you met any other civs yet? We have still met just yourself and Exploit, and if you have met anymore we would love to gain further contact. If you need any assistance gaining contact with Exploit we would be happy to help in that regard.

One last question, what are your thoughts on the map that we are playing on? From our calculations the two that make the most sense is either some sort of Lakes map or a heavily modified Team Battleground. We were leaning towards Lakes (as the number of tiles on this map are very similar), but the lack of anything more than 1 tile lakes so far on this map seems like it might rule that out. Do you have any thoughts on it?

Regards,
SsS

I really don't think razing an undefended city this early is dishonorable or anything, but I think the reasoning is:

1. This paints us as the "good guys" in this case
2. If we do go to war with them with Spraets, I don't expect to have any problem taking this city later if we do end up wanting it.
3. They may be more forthcoming with us on what they have learned so far of the world. I threw in the stuff about maps to hopefully loosen them up a bit and maybe get them talking if they've thought about it at all.

Obviously feel free to scrap that all if you want, but that's just what came to mind after thinking it over a bit.

[Sandover]

Sent your message as is, scooter, bar from adding your signature to it since I don't want to take credit for your work, so to speak. Who knows, maybe they rather talk to you than me?

I'm talking to Exploit about unessential stuff atm, which I won't bother posting. Essence of it so far is that he has found similar resources that we have but no strategic ones yet. His first settler is due in 3 turns.

[Sandover]

Finally a response from CBE;

We were actually just drafting an email to you when we received this. Damn those hill tiles and their visibility, but you should know defenders are lurking . We wanted to wait before sending this email to see what you were planning to do as moving onto our borders on the diagonal did look aggressive. Now that you have cleared that up we would like to discuss a few things with you.

We would like to discuss possible tech trades and maybe the possibilities of being allies along those lines. We can get to alphabet fairly quickly so we should start discussing tech trade options as soon as possible. The only thing that can improve your Praetorian Legions are catapults and we could certainly help you get to them fairly quickly. Obviously such help would only come if we had an agreement that such an army would be used elsewhere so a fairly lengthy NAP would be required in such an instance.

Also, we were hoping to get an agreement on sharing scouting and contact information. We have India to our NE, HRE further N of them, and Egypt to our SE. we could arrange with them to direct your warrior for contact. We have also had word that the French are to our south and the Aztecs are to India's east. Have you any other contacts apart from tech peddlars? Exploit has been pretty openly anti-tech-alliances, and it would be in both our interests to not discuss tech trades with them, but every contact helps and maybe he has tempered his aggression. You can see our warrior at the SE border of Rome, could you give directions for quickest way for him to meet Exploit somewhere? Or would it be quicker to send a contact out of Madrigal (our apparently undefended city) as we would like to continue exploring to your sw, unless you think that won't be fruitful?

About the map information, we are happy to give our thoughts. Our team is pretty confident that it's a 64x64 Team Battleground with toroidal wrapping. But if you have the location of that one lake tile that would help, at least then we could get some use out of our Feitoria.

Regards,

Mukha & Dantski

They also sent us;

Hi SsS,

Just a quick follow-up to previous message. We have the best (quickest and safest) route to India from your warrior's current location (2NW of madrigal):

NE-NE-E-SE-SE-E-SE-SE

They may have a scout closer. India and HRE have both been informed that you would like contact with them.

So it seems that they are finally going to talk to us. How do you want me to handle diplomacy with these guys?

[Sandover]

Turn 43:

Settler done. ETA on Scooterville: 2 turns. Revolted to slavery.

Smash the Lion Killer is hanging out with one of Exploit's warriors, before heading eastwards to make more contacts.

Stitch is going to explore the area SE of Sandograd.

Storm is getting ready to escort the settler.

Strike is soon back in Sandograd, where he will act as garrison. Most likely for a long time to come.

[spacemanmf]

Turn 43:

Strike is soon back in Sandograd, where he will act as garrison. Most likely for a long time to come.

Not a very apt name then. Maybe Sitdown or something might be better...

[scooter]

Hah! I like the name Sitdown. That or Squatter or something. That made me laugh.

I'm trying to figure out how we should handle Portugal diplo. I did find one thing they said really interesting though:

About the map information, we are happy to give our thoughts. Our team is pretty confident that it's a 64x64 Team Battleground with toroidal wrapping.

The map being toroidal would make a lot of sense from a balance perspective. But I think we need to consider the implications of that... Maintenance is going to be killer with Emperor + Toroidal. That might be a mild hindrance to our warmongering plans. We'll definitely have to get a few cottages down pretty quickly...


I guess the question diplo-wise is how much we want to give away (with our tech plans) and how much we want to push to find out info. If Portugal has contact with India (which from their email I think they do), then I'm almost positive they'll have some sort of tech trades lined up by now, as regoarrar was the one who pushed the early tech trades in PB1 and I would imagine he would do the same thing here. Locking ourselves into a long NAP does not sound ideal, let alone having a NAP to begin with.

If we get into a tech trade with more civs than Exploit, I think we need to be pretty adamant that we will not participate in a 3-5 (or whatever number) way tech trade without Exploit being included. I'll try to draft up an idea for what to send to them next.

[scooter]

Sandover, can you check in-game on what the best way for Portugal to meet Exploit would be? I think that would be good to put in this email (unless you disagree)...

CBE,
Well we are very glad to hear you have defenders nearby! We also greatly appreciate your help in meeting other civs, as well as your thoughts on the map. [INSERT INSTRUCTIONS TO MEET EXPLOIT HERE?] I'll keep it simple though and get right down to business.

You and Exploit are the only two we have contact with right now. Exploit also has contact with the Aztecs, and his description of their location (far east of himself) sounds like it lines up with what you said. We have had correspondence with Exploit on the subject of tech trades, and despite your concerns he actually seems very willing to work with us on that level. In the interest of being forthcoming with you, I will say we have a rough deal penciled in with Exploit involving us giving Iron Working, but it's very much subject to change on the terms exactly at this point. If you are interested in getting in on some sort of trade with Exploit and ourselves we are more than willing to listen to any proposals you may have.

Rather than dancing around the subject, I'll just ask - do you have any trades lined up? With contact with India, Egypt, and HRE we are admittedly curious if there are deals forming in your part of the world. I guess I figure with regoarrar's ability to line up trades there has to be something cooking!

I guess another thing I should mention is you brought up the idea of a NAP. We are admittedly not big fans of NAP's and we were kind of hoping to never sign one this game. We have seen in past games that all NAP's do is cause paranoia of what may happen at the end of a NAP. That does not mean we are not open to more creative ways of working with neighbors, but we thought we should at least mention that to you.

I'm at a loss as to what else to add or if that message is a little "too sharing." It's tricky because good relations, at least early on, would be key because they have lots of contacts early on, but they are the natural geographic enemy of ourselves and Exploit. I admit though I'm starting to wonder if an early rush might be somewhat off the table (or at least more difficult) with Emperor + Toroidal maintenance.

What are your thoughts on this? My goal in that message would be to get as much info about contacts & tech trades as possible.