RPB3 SPOILERS Bismarck of India (regoarrarr, darrelljs, sooooo, sunrise089)

[regoarrarr]

Bigger news was a chat with Exploit where we are contesting the stone city site (Which we are in place to settle this turn - we just haven't while we figure out where to put it)

It's a bit confusing because both darrell and I were logged in as DJ Civ, but darrell helpfully prepended his initials with the chat

me: there?
Tech: yes
what's up?
me: hold on a sec
trying to get darrell in here
Tech: np who is this? Regoarrarr or Sunrise?
me: regoarrarr
Sent at 11:14 AM on Sunday
me: ping
darrell?
Tech: still here
me: yes
okay - sorry exploit it might be confusing darrell and i are both showing up as DJ Civ
Tech: lol. ok.
me: djs: I'll prepend my initials
we haven't figured out how to get our personal accounts into gchat
djs: so, about the stone site. We dont' want control of those overlatiles, we are willng to find a way in game to let you have tme (basically, we wont buildin any culture only buildings there)
djs: the major problem with settling on the FP is food.
djs: the site just doesnt have any
djs: we really want good relations with our neighbors, as our traits make for good bulding and bad war-ing
djs: so we are hoping you find this acceptable
djs: overlatiles = overlap tiles. my typing is a bit off today
Tech: If you build 1 south of the stone you will have 3 flood plains still within your big fat cross for food. That is a lot more than some of my cities.
me: djs: you should found cities with more food
djs: it doesn't ahve any food resource unfortunately, so we are really talking about 25% of the surplus
Tech: I would love to but not all cities can be optimum locations.
me: djs: that's the difference between two cottages or farms, for a resonale growth rate
Sent at 11:20 AM on Sunday
me: djs: anyway, we think you should be able to get control of those tiles that form the overlap (we dont care about them) by the time tyou would work them (assuming the fog holds something decent), so it should b the ame to you
pop a quick library in there (you have writing - we don't) and you should outweigh our stonehenge monumnet
djs: exactly...I was jsut going to type we'd be willing to hold off on getting a library up until you do so.
djs: which kind of sucks for us but it is orth it for that extra food
Sent at 11:22 AM on Sunday
Tech: The only resource my northern city will have is a pig while your city will have a wine and a stone. You already will have a better city then mine by building south of the flood plain and now you are asking me to give up even more. This isn't a fair trade.
me: djs: what, exactly are we askign you to give up?
Tech: You are making me culturally fight for two tiles that I should not have to.
me: djs: one of those tiles is equadistant between our two capitls
djs: we are giving up our "rights" to it in the interest of getting off on the right foot
djs:and, not to whine, but one grassland pig tile gives the same food surplus as 2 floodplains
djs: and takes less time to improve, you'll grow like a weed with tha til and be workign cottages while we are still getting our floodplain famrs online.
Tech: I am giving up the wine which is also equidistant between our two capitals. Care to give me the wine for that tile instead?
me: djs: I believe we would be willing to come to a sharing agreement with you on the wine if it is equidistant to our capitals
Tech: I am talking about the wine tile and not the wine resource.
me: really?
djs: plains hill wine is barely worht working IMO
Tech: It should be worth more then an unrivered forest plain.
me: djs: the tile is 7 from our capital and 8 from yours, so close enough for us to do a timeshare on the resource.
djs: yeah...I agree its worth more than that
djs: but I'd rather have grassland river tiles
djs: improved, it is a 1/2/3 tile.
Tech: the wine tile is only 6 tiles from my capital.
me: djs: 6E and 4S, correct?
i thought the wine was at 6W2N
right
djs: from us, 6W2N, from Exploit 6E4S
Sent at 11:31 AM on Sunday
Tech: correct. If you want to use pythagorem theorem to calculate distance then the overlap tiles are closer to my capital then yours. If you just want to count movement tiles (more realistic) then the wine is equal distant between the two capitals.
me: i thought in the email i sent last night i used the 1.5 diagonal 1 linearl (which is how civ the game calculates distance)
and the one overlap tile was equidistand and the one was closer
but it doesn't matter - we agree that they are all close
depending on how you arrange things
djs: so let me summarize, cause I got to run soon:
djs: the wine resource will be shared and we will no contest culture with yoru city. this is our offer that we ask you accept so we can have a city with decent food.
djs: your position is that the 2F is not that important and you should not have to fight for the tiles.
djs: and our added incentive of sharing the wine resource is or is not god enough to sway you?
djs: because at this point I am not sure what we could offer more to sweeten the pot?
djs: maybe loan you the stone to bulid a national wonder like maoi while we arent using it?
djs: and/or oxford
djs: that is a lot of hammers we would be saving you
Sent at 11:37 AM on Sunday
Tech: Lt me think on your proposal for a while and I will get back to you via email
me: okay that sounds good
i need to run too but we'll be checking emails throughout the day
Tech: bye

All the while, darrell and I were having our own side conversations saying things like "offer him wine and then hope we kill him before Monarchy" or "he'll never see our stone". Probably kind of jerky but ya know

At this point, as I was telling darrell, I think we've got him. He's got to realize that we're not moving, and so he might as well take what he can get from us.

Hopefully that just doesn't mean "vulture rush"

[spacemanmf]

djs: "maybe loan you the stone to bulid a national wonder like maoi"

Useful on a map like this...

[regoarrarr]

djs: "maybe loan you the stone to bulid a national wonder like maoi"

Useful on a map like this...

did not even think about that but yeah you're totally right

[darrelljs]

Nice work with Rome. Krill is counting on us to pull htem into the block. I'd say we offer to loan them Iron if they can't secure their own supply in exchange for Praets...if they are in the alliance of course .

Exploit's response:

Greetings Leaders of DJ Civ,

I have given some thought to your position and I am willing to accept DJ Civ settling on the stone tile in exchange for the following:

1) DJ Civ recognizes Tech Peddlers land claim to settle the tile 3 northwest of the stone tile. DJ Civ will not settle nor allow others to pass through their land to settle within 2 tiles of Tech Peddlers land claim. Similarly Tech Peddlers will not settle or allow others to pass through their land to settle near the stone tile.

2) DJ Civ will not settle, nor allow others to pass through their land to settle, a city in the 6 high by 2 wide rectangle of tiles that has as its southern base the tile directly north and the tile northeast of the stone tile. This will prevent further cultural overlap of big fat crosses into Tech Peddler's land claim. Tech Peddler likewise will not settle in this area. Future negotiations may alter this arrangement if both parties agree.

3) DJ Civ agrees to a very long term NAP with Tech Peddlers that will last until the end of Turn 200. The NAP prevents either party from declaring war on each other or allowing third parties to pass through their territory to attack the second party. The NAP does not preclude either party from trading units to third parties, even if at war with the second party. Both parties agree to open borders for the duration of the NAP.

4) DJ Civ agrees to make all of its researched technologies available for sale as soon as researched to Tech Peddlers using the Tech Peddler fair trade policy and exchange rates for pricing. Tech Peddler already agrees to do this with all civilizations however it reaffirms this policy with DJ Civ as part of this agreement.

5) The overlap tiles will belong to whoever culturally owns them. Neither party shall cut down the trees in the neutral territory between our civs however both parties have the right to cut down any trees within their respective cultural borders as they expand over the neutral territory.

6) DJ Civ agrees to build a road network to connect trade routes with Tech Peddler by Turn 65 at the latest.

Please let me know if these terms are acceptable.

We should not accept. I think we should respond that while we were very interested in negotiating the city site location, this proposal has many items relating to long term game strategy that will require more negotiation to complete the exact terms.

Uh, sunrise089...sooooo, you guys around?

Darrell

[regoarrarr]

Yes - clearly we can't accept it. I'll draft a response in a bit when I get back unless anyone else does it beforehand, but I'd be okay with 1, 2, 5, and 6 (assuming we can make 6 happen - mabye delay by a turn or 2 or also check river connections).

5 even I'm fine with him cutting down the trees

[novice]

Heh... Is Exploit trying to extort a 150 turn NAP from you? Thats... odd.

[sooooo]

A NAP until turn 200 is stupid. We cannot accept that deal.

[regoarrarr]

Okay first the easy stuff. I deleted the old draft to Exploit, since we covered that mostly in our chat. Though I did realize that the reason he didn't seem to remember the distance calculations I covered in my email from last night is that I never sent it

I also sent the draft to Portugal

And we received the following from Inca.

Hi there, DJ Civilization,

We'd like to say a word of welcome since our Quecha found your estearn border.
As you might have heard, we of JANK are located east of Ruff and have Rome to our eastern border.
Life can be very interesting, can't it?

We'd like to ask you if you have met others already on our side of the Great Dessert.
We have a Quecha moving through it.

Kind regards,
Nakor of JANK

[regoarrarr]

Email from ruff to HRE and us

Guys,

I've been walking my dogs and thinking about my future. HRE are suggesting that we might be able to talk Inca off with a carrot (include in tech cartel) and stick (4v1 with shadow puppets at dawn). That might work, but I don't expect it to. Frankly, I don't want to reward such early aggression.

If they do attack, I don't see them capturing my capital with the first wave. If they walk straight past my capital, I expect they will be able to kill my second city just before the Tech Trade turn. Or they just choke my capital. Either way, I am out of the running re winning this game and my goals become KILL INCA and feed you guys money and military to KILL INCA. My civ can be set up to generate money (Shrine Income) and units (whip plus quick recovering time) so that might be my future.

DJCiv mentioned a goal of the initial encounter would be to not tip our hand re Chariots to the Inca - make them feel that they can safely bring wave after wave of axes. Then after Tech Trade day, we roll into my territory with Chariots and kill their units. As such and given that I can probably hold against the Q with 2 warriors in my 2nd city (until they walk an axe over), I don't think the Ottomans should declare on Inca ... just say hello, nice to meet you and send the chariot on a 5 to 8 turn tour - returning to Aztec lands in time for Tech Trade day.

Ruff

[regoarrarr]

Also we have met the Ottomans - their chariot Valera met our healing warrior