RPB3 SPOILERS Bismarck of India (regoarrarr, darrelljs, sooooo, sunrise089)

[regoarrarr]

Also darrell - HRE sent some more scrreenies

And do we want to send anything to Maya, Rome or Byz?

[regoarrarr]

How's the power graph look? Especially exploit

[darrelljs]

Everyone had ended turn but us, so I went ahead and did so to advance the game. Here is the updated theater (I didn't do anything General Sunrise, you need to look at all cities and units):



Both Chariots are on the same tile. Exploits Warrior is back in the picture as well.

Darrell

[darrelljs]

How's the power graph look? Especially exploit

Dang it I forgot to check .

Portugal is scanning every turn to see if Copper shows up. So far it hasn't. I doubt we have tons of time. I wonder if the whole Hunting for Spears thing was just a cover to go for Archery?

Darrell

[Rowain]

Given that you lost one city, are currently in war with Maya, the possibility that Byz joins in and that you would have to do it alone I don't see how an successfull attack on Exploit is possible

[darrelljs]

I have faith in General Sunrise, but yeah its going to be tough. Message from the Mayans:

Yeah, it's taking us forever to formulate anything. Here's the problem (apart from having trouble getting our whole team online at the same time) - an agreement between the Kittens and DJs as individual teams would be just about meaningless at this point. You'd have to march an army across the desert to get at us anyway; the real danger to our civ comes from those of your innumerable allies who happen to live nearby. What's the point of making peace with you if the deal doesn't somehow include them? Worse still, making peace under the terms you describe would tie our hands if you attacked one of the civs on whom we're now dependent (no matter how willingly or how reluctantly) for key parts of our technological progress - preventing us from taking any steps to help defend them. (You could say, "Well, if only you'd joined our alliance..." but we've addressed that already, and anyway, at this point, it's history.) We're having a lot of trouble imagining that your civ would agree to any deal that would exclude possibilities like these, and we don't want to waste your time with offers you'll never take. So ... we'll keep thinking about it. Is there a way around it? Something we're missing? You tell me.


In case you still want to discuss things: Maniac hopes to be online and available to chat tomorrow, though he's been sick for most of the week, so that may affect his schedule. I should be able to be online too with a little bit of flexibility on the times, though I have to cut out by 5ish in the evening (U.S. Pacific Standard Time) and certainly can't be on all day. If you'd like to chat and there's a best time for you, let us know. If you agree with us that there's probably no near-term way to peace ... eh, I guess we'll have to keep chiseling at the crack in that "probably." Or, you know, letting it go and just fighting to the death in spite of the desert and everything. (Ragnar cheers, "That one! Yay!" in the background, then collapses into drunken sleep.)

Draft reply:

So, if we understand your message correctly you aren't making peace with us because it still leaves you vulnerable, and you want us to get you a NAP with all of your CAN neighbors? Not sure if you understand CAN but we aren't exactly The Borg over here. It is a tech trading alliance, not a political body. That said, if you tell us who your neighbors are we are more than happy to approach them.

As for us attacking another CANT member, I'm not sure we are the civ you have to worry about there. I mean, we lost a city and have had to reduce our population to nothing in order to defend the rest. We're a charity civ now (thanks for that). We're pretty much at a loss on why you are so fixated on us. Maybe we are missing something, but:

1. Maya can't use any of our land due to crippling expense.

2. The war isn't slowing CAN down tech wise. Therefore, it isn't slowing India down tech wise.

3. The war is slowing Maya down tech wise. It is also slowing Maya down expansion wise.

4. While the war is slowing India down expansion wise, what benefit is that to Maya?

5. We can't broker techs over to you, so if you want bilateral trades with us we need to be able to research. We can't do that when all our efforts are going to military. We will never be able to convince another CAN member to give you a tech, that's a guarantee.

[darrelljs]

Note from Byzantium:

Bobchillingworth here for the Spectres. I think the accidental post was a little bit more "honest" than either of our civs would have preferred, but perhaps in the end it serves as a useful point for discussions. As you now know, we are not interested in quite so underwhelming a tech offer as your propose. As you are also aware, we are somewhat nonplussed about the current diplomatic and trading structure; hopefully this is somewhat understandable, given our less-than-desirable position in it. Strange as it sounds, consider our ire toward your civ in particular as a tribute to the combined remarkable civ skills of your team; it's difficult to imagine such a large trading group forming without yourselves playing a formative role. Of course, we may be entirely mistaken, but we don't have too much intel to go on at present.

Of course there's no reason why we can't find ourselves working together in the future; indeed I get the impression that you guys enjoy shaking things up from time to time. Who wants to let their giant, evil alliance get stale, right?

I'll be on chat for another hour or so if you want to talk, otherwise I look corresponding with you later!

Draft reply:

We didn't found CAN, but we did join when we learned of it. It was either that or lose. Everyone around us with one exception was in CAN, and that one excpetion said mean things to us. We'll tell you the same things we told the Mayans:

1. You can't use any of our land due to crippling expense.

2. War isn't slowing CAN down tech wise. Therefore, it isn't slowing India down tech wise.

3. War will slowing Byzantium down tech wise. It will also slow Byzantium down expansion wise.

4. While war would further slow India down expansion wise, what benefit is that to Byzantium?

5. We can't broker techs over to you, so if you want bilateral trades with us we need to be able to research. We can't do that when all our efforts are going to military.

That last point is important...Mayans and I guess you guys seem to think CAN is some kind of Borg, but it isn't at least not for us. It is a tech trading cartel. That's it. We will never be able to convince another CAN member to give you a tech, that's a guarantee.

Darrell

[darrelljs]

I guess we can ignore the Mayan draft. Chat with Maniac:

me: sorry Im back...ping me if you want to chat
Sent at 10:49 AM on Friday
Friendly: We don't chat in game. We only do it here.
me: Right...us too
The in game chat engine is terrible
And it lags it up for anyone else trying to play
Friendly: This one sucks too, but no one seems to use any less barbaric programs these days, least of all my teamates =/
me:
So, do you have time (and desire) to talk now?
This is Darrell, BTW.
Friendly: I have time, though I'm sick with a fever and have been all week.
me: Maniac then
YOu must be my age or near enough if you played Wing Commander
Friendly: So I'm liable to wander off chasing something halucinatory at any moment X_X
me: That can't hurt us at this point :P
Friendly: I'm 44
me: 39
Okay, well I'll get to business so you can get some sleep
First off, we have a draft to your message but no one is around so I haven't sent it.
Basically, if we understand your message correctly you aren't making peace with us because it still leaves you vulnerable, and you want us to get you a NAP with all of your CAN neighbors? Not sure if you understand CAN but we aren't exactly The Borg over here. It is a tech trading alliance, not a political body. That said, if you tell us who your neighbors are we are more than happy to approach them.
(that was cut and paste...I type fast but not that fast)
Friendly: Ref wrote that. I hope it made sense to you, because it didnt to me
me: We were not sure what it meant, that was our best guess
Friendly: Oh, wait, he sent a shorter one
me: yeah...his was two paragraphs
He never flat out said what you guys wanted but he implied several things
Friendly: the original one was a novelette
me: Yeah...Ref has sent us some really long e-mails. I get the feeling he honestly hates how things have gone and is trying to explain them as much to himself as to us
which is fine of course
Friendly: he's an author. If you've read ay of his MoO reports, you know he doesn't write short things.
me: Course when the game is over and we read your forums I'll look like a naive idiot
Ahh...didn't know that.
Friendly: He runs the MoO area for RB.
me: So anyway, the offer stands for us to approach your CAN neighbors for a long term NAP if you like.
Never make it outside of CIV myself
Friendly: That's what it's going to take
me: Can you give me a list of civs?
Friendly: And I'm not sure THEY are intersted =/
everyon you havent met
me: and keep in mind we havne't met some people so it might require
ok
stopped me mid sentence
Friendly: pretty much X_X
me: Let's see...Carthage, England, Egypt?
Friendly: We know everyone not in your alliance, ad only you in it
me: ok
I am actually highly curious if WE know everyone in our alliance
But that's our problem to figure out
Friendly: actually, we don' know th inca yet
we will shortly
me: if you are north of us, inca are south and east of you...pretty far east I think
Friendly: i cant imagine they willbe attacking ayone soon
me: hah-hah...nope
Friendly: we're north of you yes
me: We tried to broker a peace between those guys early on, its just a dumb idea to make early war, especially as joao of inca
I think it was pretty close to done but then Jowy torpedoed it based on the emails
Won't know until the game ends and we can read their forums
Sent at 11:01 AM on Friday
Friendly: Well, I'm really sorry things turned out this way. We didn't want this war either.
me: Do we need to be doing the same NAP thing for Byz? Its going to be a lot of effort due to the relaying and I'd rather only have to do it once.
I hold no grudges...I have a list of reasons on why I think it is a mistake if you want me to share it with you
Friendly: I know you're goin to say why did we then? It'll make sense after the gam
I can' immagine Byz being for peace.
me: I think I know why you think you did, but I also think I know why it was still a bad idea :P
Friendly: Just being honst
me: Okay...so that begs the qustion if we line up NAPs with us will you drop out of the war even if Byz does not?
Cause if that's the case I'd rather not waste my time
Friendly: I honestly dono. I've tried not to make the decisions for this team.
I signed up to be a DEDICATED LURKER
me: Okay...then I woudl ask this...can you post that question in that forum and have Ref or someone else get back to me ASAP? I don't mind doing the leg work but I just don't want to waste any more time on this game than I have to .
that forum = your forum, not ours :D
Friendly: And I ended up geting 2hrs of sleep a night trying to run the team because our turplayer hasnt been doing it.=/
me: that sucks!
Friendly: I'm done spening 15hrs a day on this game. I'm makin the people who are suppoed to be running the team make the decision.
me: works for me
Hope they can do it today though.
Friendly: Ref will be here later.
me: Okay, well I'll let you go now, take some meds andd get some sleep
Friendly: Both he and Cull are gone for the 24hrs between fri and sat night though (always)
me: Okay...I'll keep that in mind.
Friendly: Dude, this is just me speaking, not the team, but I really feel shitty that thins turned out this way.
Really sucks that a few months ago I was hoping you'd beat kathlete... no I AM kathlete X_X =/
me: Don't waste any time on that man, its a game! Play your best, keep being honest, its all good.
FWIW, we didn't found CAN, but we did join when we learned of it. It was either that or lose. Like you noticed, everyone around us with one exception was in CAN, and that one exception said mean things to us. Sometimes the game pushes you in a direction you don't want.
Sent at 11:11 AM on Friday
Friendly: Well, same on our side. I hope that we can find a way to end this, even if I'm not hopeful it will come to pass.
me: Me too .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Come to think of it, we can probably ignore the Byzantium draft. They are dead set on war it seems.

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Reply sent to Byzantium, in a chat now with sunrise on the turn.

Darrell