RPB3 SPOILERS Bismarck of India (regoarrarr, darrelljs, sooooo, sunrise089)

[darrelljs]

I've been in several really long chats with various Mayan players today. They want to broker a peace but they want it to include a NAP with Sumeria. Not sure how everyone feels about that.

I told them basically "just my opinion but if we are taking military options off the table with Sumeria, then at a minimum he can't settle any cities in our direction". Not sure what everyone else thinks. I'm pretty upset at this point, its pretty well confirmed he's been using anti-CAN sentiment to paint us as this great enemy that needs containing, and everyone is basically doing his defense for him. At the same time, we might be better off with peace, NAPs, and freedom to expand. We have a lot of room to grow.

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Turn ended...the Mayan Chariot disappeared .

The more I think about it, the more I think it would take at least a Settler from Exploit before peace is possible. We lost a city cause of that dude, I would not want him to get off scott free .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Three diplo letters...no time for me to process them but I'll post them for you guys to read.

Willem Oranje

Hi guys,

We would like to discuss the possibility of having France replaced with Babylon. This might come across as a little backstabby, but then the way I see it is you have to be friends before you can backstab and we've had a grand total of 34 words from France. Yes I'm keeping count and ranking your friendliness by your word count . They also continued to ignore our directions to meet Ottomans even though they didn't have pottery so they can't be getting much in the way of commerce (says the 4 city broke civ ). I know we can't be alone in not wanting France in the CAN as they were originally vetoed. I think Babylon are especially keen not be left struggling in the CANTs and they could be one of the few Alphabet researchers left out there. Babylon could possibly make a strike against France with our permisssion and our pledge not to come to French aid or we could just leave France out of the next round fairly peacefully. A downside is that France were in a better location strategically and this would put Babylon between Mali and Byzantium, but they do have a fairly powerful defensive UU (although it isn't much use against skirmishers or the ubiquitous HA). They already have the important financial techs so it doesn't need to be obvious that they have joined with us until the next round of trading although it could be obvious sooner depending on what ETA they gave others for Alphabet.

As the Ottomans have finally chased down the French warrior this turn for contact could they cancel their pottery gift until we discuss this unless they think this idea is too Machiavellian and far fetched. We feel that the French were signed on a little too hastily before getting to know them and their style of play, but we are happy to have our minds changed if other people have had better relations with them and can see a way that the French could develop into a powerful, trustworthy ally.

Mukha
CBE

Byzantium:

War is always detrimental to teching and expansion, unfortuantely the current state of the game is limiting options. From what we know, your teching alliance consists of more than half of the Civs in this game so even if the remaining teams all band together in response, it will be an uphill battle just to keep pace. The prospect of playing a waiting game for 50 or so turns before being steamrolled by an alliance that both outnumbers and outtechs you isn't something many players will find encouraging. In that light, I really can't blame them for resorting to war to try and break that lopsided stalemate.

In any case, we are not in any state to go to war right now. Barb units really are vicious on Emperor difficulty; the damage you saw to our Chariot was the result of a single Warrior! So that threat isn't something you'll need to worry about. The Chariot was sent south to meet other Civs, and it has done so admirably so far. To avoid giving the wrong impression, we have moved it a bit further away from your borders; we will need to have it heal for a few turns though. ;-)

-SleepingMoogle

Mayans:

DJ Party Dudes!


I was discussing the possibility of a peace proposal with Darrell earlier. I just talked to Exploit, and he's willing to talk NAP. I asked him about settling toward you, and he seems willing to agree - he wants one city east of his capital, but it's clearly closer to his than to yours, and nothing else east of his current cities. Are we on the same page here?


Here's what I threw together:


Peace Proposal and Non-Aggression Pact between Friendly Kittens, DJ Civilization, and Tech Peddle
1) Peace will be made in-game between Friendly Kittens and DJ Civ
2) Non-Aggression Pacts will be established between DJ Civ and Friendly Kittens, and between DJ Civ and Tech Peddle, until turn 100. If you want it to go longer, that's fine. Once peace is established, we'll hopefully have time to discuss long-term plans.
3) Included in "Non-Aggression": No gifting units that will be used in hostile actions against a NAP partner. No allowing right of passage to armies en route to attack a NAP partner. No providing logistical support (intelligence, road building to speed movement in neutral territory, etc.) to armies attacking a NAP partner. No bribing or goading civs into attacking a NAP partner. Etc. This pact is meant to establish actual peaceful relations between our three civs, not a screen behind which to hide while aiding war against one another.
4) For the duration of the NAP, DJ Civ and Tech Peddle will not settle aggressively toward each other. Tech Peddle plans to place exactly one city east of his current city sites: A city east and slightly north of his capital, and just north of northwest from Karaoke Tuesday, such that the BFCs of the cities do not overlap. The distance between DJ Civ and Friendly Kittens is such that "no aggressive settlements" will take care of itself.


I was going to suggest gifting us Hunting as a friendly gesture, but decided against it. I don't want to aim high and haggle; I want something that we can agree on that's actually mutually beneficial for our civs. If you've asked for other CAN civs to attack us or cause us trouble, I would ask that you "call them off" as part of option 3. That's about it, I think.


So: Will this work?


-RefSteel for the Friendly Kittens

Darrell

[regoarrarr]

Hey guys - quick as I'm still on vacation.

First of all, you're OLD! I thought I was old for Civ (33) :-)

Secondly, sounds like we're okay with Byz - they don't seem to be as set on war as we thought originally?

How's the war plans going with Exploit? I agree with darrell that it's going to take at least a settler for me to want to sign peace. I say we just go as soon as we can. I might be willing to take say...Bison Pass instead of a city

[darrelljs]

Funny...I'm actually 37 not sure where 39 came from. But yeah I am old .

I'll put drafte together for review.

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Draft reply to Willem (Portugal I think).

France or Bablyon is the same to us since we haven't met either, but I think we will run into retention problems if we stab someone. What about France AND Bablyon?

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Draft reply to Byzantium. I don't trust them not to attack us TBH, from my talks with the Mayans they seem to be the real roadblock right now. Let's put them to the test:

We appreciate your declaration of peaceful intentions, and the fact that you backed it up by moving your Chariot to a less aggressive position! If you like, we can sign a long term NAP and open our borders. That would let you move your Chariot in our lands and heal faster. Of course we'd have to include a clause preventing you from scouting out our territory to any other civ .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Draft reply to the Mayans:

First off, thanks for the peace offer. We know you are trying to resolve this situation and appreciate the effort! We want to be straight up in our negotiations and not lead you on. Unfortunately after talking it over, the proposal you sent is just not going to work for us. While we were perfectly willing to offer you guys techs for peace, it was mostly because we felt you were not a natural enemy, and the war was not your initiative.

As strange as it may sound to you, we pretty much blame Sumeria for the razing of t-shirt contest. We see them as the true adversary and find it unacceptable that they could get off scot free, while you had to tie down resrouces defending them and we have to swallow the loss of a city. So in addition to the terms you've laid out, we require a Settler from them within the next five turns as reparations.

One final ponit, we've had a nice exchange with Byzantium and it seems they are not interested in war with us. We have not had much contact with them however, so any final deal would need to include Byzantium in the NAP.

PARTY ON!
DJ Civ
India

[darrelljs]

Brief chat with Willem. Rome has apparently asked Portugal how close they are to us, and whether they would come to our aid if they invaded us through Sumeria .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Sure is loney without rego here to thread spam with me .

Darrell