Saga and Final Fantasy Legend

[T-hawk]

Hey, Final Fantasy Legend 2, I played that one a lot as a kid on road trips. I also did the 4 Robots party back then. I thought they were the brokenly overpowered class, because you can heal them for free between battles (just unequip/reequip armor, equipping an item raises current HP along with max, but unequipping doesn't lower current HP.) I couldn't beat the last boss with them, though, without any source of in-battle healing, though also because I didn't (well, nobody did) know the damage mechanics well enough to optimize for offense. I had to replay the whole game with three robots and one mutant for some access to healing.

[Herman Gigglethorpe]

Hey, Final Fantasy Legend 2, I played that one a lot as a kid on road trips.  I also did the 4 Robots party back then.  I thought they were the brokenly overpowered class, because you can heal them for free between battles (just unequip/reequip armor, equipping an item raises current HP along with max, but unequipping doesn't lower current HP.)  I couldn't beat the last boss with them, though, without any source of in-battle healing, though also because I didn't (well, nobody did) know the damage mechanics well enough to optimize for offense.  I had to replay the whole game with three robots and one mutant for some access to healing.

Sometimes I wonder how anyone got through the Final Fantasy Legend games without a guide.  Did the manuals offer any accurate information on the mechanics?


Never played the Final Fantasy Legend games when I had a Game Boy.  The RPGs I played then were Pokemon, Robopon, and Dragon Warrior Monsters.  (DWM in particular deserves a rerelease!)  Collection of Saga gets mediocre reviews online, but I became interested in the series after seeing some videos on YouTube.

[T-hawk]

Same as for Final Fantasy 1 or 5 or anything else back in that day without a guide, you beat it with some combination of extra leveling, retrying, and just generally messing around until something worked. I just ignored the monster class for FFL 1 and 2 entirely rather than trying to figure out all the meat changes and possibilities.

I'm a bit older than most online game players. I grew up with an Atari first of all, and had the Gameboy with FFL in high school. Pokemon wasn't until college and I only played through the first game of that.

[Herman Gigglethorpe]

Same as for Final Fantasy 1 or 5 or anything else back in that day without a guide, you beat it with some combination of extra leveling, retrying, and just generally messing around until something worked.  I just ignored the monster class for FFL 1 and 2 entirely rather than trying to figure out all the meat changes and possibilities.

I'm a bit older than most online game players.  I grew up with an Atari first of all, and had the Gameboy with FFL in high school.  Pokemon wasn't until college and I only played through the first game of that.

And here I thought someone on Realms Beyond would be obsessive enough to spend 100 hours in Final Fantasy Legend 1 figuring out "meat progression". 


Final Fantasy Legend 2 All Robots Part 4:  Pointless Sacrifice


I had gradually replaced more Rapiers with Sabres on my Robots at the shop before returning to Apollo's World to pursue the next quests.


Upon entering one cave, this text box appeared:  "It's too bright!  I cannot see anything!!"  It was a reverse Rock Tunnel situation where the Robots had to find an item to make the cave darker.  Don't think I've seen that in any other RPG!


The next destination was a seaside town where the residents talked about Neptune.  "Ships get wrecked with his poison breath", and "The sea sometimes flashes in red!"  Others talked about a man who fell in love with a mermaid and walked into the sea, never to return.


As in Lynn's hometown, there was a "village atheist" with this to say:


"I am a scholar!  There is no such thing as Neptune!  It's a submarine volcano!"


The Robots dove underwater without fear of rusting.  Sure enough, the atheist eyeball monster was correct:  the next dungeon was a volcano, and there was no Roman god of the sea to be found.  Or a boss of any kind.  What the party had to worry about instead was lava floors, similar to the radioactive room in Legend 1.  The game was generous enough to provide an HP restoration spot.


Monsters underwater were the same as those on the surface, including Big Eyes, Jellies, and Ravens.  Enemy placement in Legend 2 seems almost as haphazard as in Romancing Saga 2.  The TrueEye MAGI was the item needed to enter the other cave without being blinded by the light.


Ravens were in the light cave too.  There were now Tortoises that often blocked Sabre slashes like Hofuds, who were also in this dungeon. Medusas and SabreCats were easy to kill.  DATA equipped a Laser sword from a treasure chest to increase his Agility to 63.


The Robot party still had its limits.  An "unexpected attack" by Hofuds, SabreCats, and Kelpies killed ROBO with Tusk and Kick that hit for up to 149 damage.  At least many attacks missed thanks to Agility, and they were immune to whatever ailment Breath caused.


Much of the light cave was covered by a checkerboard floor that looked like it was moving.  MAGI were available in treasure chests, but they weren't all in one area like previous worlds.  No boss awaited the Robots in this dungeon either, and the Prism said there were no MAGI remaining in Apollo's World.  The Robots returned to the temple to find the throne empty.  Apollo's worshipers must not have been paying attention, since one eyeball monster still said "Apollo is waiting for you.  Please come in".


The next destination accessible through Pillar of Sky wasn't even a "world", just a town.  One resident said "Lots of weirdos are hanging around in the cafe".  A flower monster inside the cafe wondered about the MAGI and said "Becoming a god isn't that easy!"  Another patron pointed out there were a lot of earthquakes lately.


My Robots went outside again and talked to someone who believed the Guardians' Base was in town.  One NPC in the northwestern corner said that people appeared and disappeared frequently, but the Heroic Tune always played in the cafe when that happened.


DEMI and friends played the Heroic Tune on the phonograph and unlocked the door to the Guardians' Base.  (Did you know one song in this game is called Eat the Meat?)  The Robots were captured since they were falsely believed to be enemy spies, but DATA's father got them out of jail.


The Guardians were wary of the "new gods" Ashura, Apollo, Venus, and Odin.  Their misuse of the MAGI was causing the Pillar of Sky to fail and endanger all worlds.  But the Guardians probably weren't up to the task.  One said "Oh, you look just like our Captain!  Can't wait to see you grown up!"  She couldn't tell the difference between a Human and a Robot?  


Before long, the "new gods" sent their monsters to destroy both the Guardians' Base and its host town.  The MAGI room was empty.  A new enemy called the Sprite appeared, and was impressively drawn for an early Game Boy game.  Sprite died in one hit, like the "minibosses" who took the MAGI.


Dad joined the party shortly afterwards.  He had 321 HP, 35 STR, 15 DEF, 35 AGL, and 29 MANA with a Gold sword, SMG, Blitz whip, Army chest armor, and a Cure book equipped. 


Don't know why "bedsheet ghost" enemies were called Bodach.  Their Touch attack dealt 175 damage to DATA once when the party failed to kill all of them in one round.  Defeating a Commando enemy opened the way to the next "world", which was even less substantial than Guardians' Base.  Dad sacrificed himself in a fight to defend Lynn, even though my Robots probably could have killed the enemies without difficulty. 


Lynn joined the party for a battle against the Ninja that killed Dad.  This shinobi perished after 2 Laser sword swings from WREN and DEMI for 565 damage and 550 respectively.  Apparently Lynn's father was another Guardian who had disappeared, and Dad acted as a sort of replacement father to her. 


Now that the Robots had all the MAGI up to this point, they took the Pillar of Sky to a futuristic dystopia world.  "Only beautiful people can live here in this city.  Watch me!  Ain't I pretty?" said one woman at the entrance.  The Prism told me there were 17 MAGI stones in this dimension, hinting at a world larger than Apollo's. . .


Stats and Equipment


Not all characters have the same loadout due to lack of funds, so each one has to be accounted for:


DATA

HP:  312
STR:  0
DEF:  6
AGL:  67
MANA:  0


1 Laser
Pa/Po
6 Sabres


ROBO

HP:  339
STR:  0
DEF:  6
AGL:  73
MANA:  0


2 Lasers
Pa/Po
6 Sabres


DEMI

HP:  339
STR:  0
DEF:  6
AGL:  69
MANA:  0


2 Lasers
Pa/Po
5 Sabres
1 Rapier


WREN

HP:  312
STR:  0
DEF:  6
AGL:  67
MANA:  0

1 Laser
Pa/Po
6 Sabres

[Herman Gigglethorpe]

Final Fantasy Legend 2 All Robots Part 5:  Kawazu Predicted Literary Trends!


World of Venus had such an advanced capital city that none of the buildings were labeled until the party walked inside!  This made looking for shops and inns annoying.  Only the limitations of early Game Boy programming prevented it from becoming truly frustrating.  The guards were Robots, which I haven't seen many of until this point.


In her temple, Venus was waving a fan.  She told the party "I am glad to hear you defeated that ugly Ashura!  I will grant you to stay here in my world.  I do not think you can find any MAGI here though.  Ho ho ho. . ."  She laughed as if she were Mightdealer from Money Puzzle Exchanger.


Then I found out World of Venus wasn't just a dystopia, but a TEEN dystopia in the style of bestsellers from the late 2000s through early 2010s.  The plot centered around a love triangle between Flora, Leon, and Nils.  Leon had been banished from Venus's city because "his leg was wounded".  This kind of hatred for the disabled sounded like the society in Cinder by Marissa Meyer.


Venus had forced Flora to be engaged to Nils, rather like Matched by Allie Condie.  (But Nils would be the "sexy fallen angel" hero in any 2000s paranormal romance.)  The beauty-based society brought Scott Westerfeld's Uglies series to mind.  Environmental themes tend to recur in teen dystopias too, like the apocalypse that led to the Hunger Games, the lack of oxygen in Breathe, and no doubt many other books.  Multiple dimensions in Legend 2 had frequent earthquakes, probably as a result of the "new gods" basing their rule on stolen MAGI that were meant to preserve the Pillar of Sky.


Leon was fine in the rebel village and wanted to see Flora again.  The next stop was the mandatory sewer dungeon to the north of Venus's city.  But it wasn't that bad in Legend 2 since everywhere had awful encounter rates. 


Enemies in World of Venus were repeated from Guardians' Base.  I learned quickly that Sprites needed to die as fast as possible, since each Thunder cast jolted a Robot for 237 damage.  The lack of Mana for magic defense was the only notable weakness the Robot team had so far.  Baby-D in the sewer sometimes breathed Flame for 138-141 damage to the whole party.


DATA defeated a Hermit crab with one 564 power Laser swing and got a Key needed to get the MAGI.  Why did Venus allow MAGI to be tossed into the sewer when she could have taken them for herself?  I have no idea.


The sewer had the first treasure chest traps, usually battles against Mephistos and Phantoms that died in one hit to Laser swords.  When DEMI and friends returned to the surface, they talked to Flora and found out she would have to marry Nils.  A fake wedding ceremony between Bowser and Peach made a black hole in Super Paper Mario, and in Final Fantasy Legend 2, Flora's engagement announcement caused a volcano to spring from the ground like Paricutín.


Before entering the next dungeon, the Robots purchased as many Lasers as they could afford.


Stats and Equipment


HP:  366
STR:  0
DEF:  6
AGL:  79
MANA:  0


3 Lasers
Pa/Po
5 Sabres

[Herman Gigglethorpe]

Final Fantasy Legend 2 All Robots Part 6:  The Death of Venus


World of Venus had a volcano that was similar to the underwater version in Apollo's World.  That meant a lot of time spent on damage floors, though they didn't hurt as much as expected, and there were occasionally healing spots.


Enemies in the volcano dropped dead in one hit when the Laser swords were slicing them for over 730 damage.  But if they got an "unexpected attack", a Magician could cast Fire for 415 power, well over the max HP for any Robot at the time.  Robot targeting priorities go like this:


1st:  Wizards
2nd:  Physical Attackers
3rd:  Status Ailment users, since Robots aren't affected.


Ogres were magicians too, since they could shoot Ice for 239 damage.  But this was survivable when the Robots had 366 HP and a stock of X-Cures after combat.


The Robots grabbed two of the MAGI, but Leon had followed them the whole time (with his bad leg?) and swiped the last one.  He charged into Venus's city to take on the new goddess, but an injured man with one MAGI was no match for her.  DATA, WREN, DEMI, and ROBO had to interrupt the wedding ceremony themselves.  Flora showed her courage by scarring herself with a knife so Venus would have to kick her out of the city.


WREN's wanted some attention, so he taunted Venus:  "Your city of beauty?  HA!  HA!  You're the most graceless one!"  Venus perished in one round of combat when all 4 Robots slashed her with Lasers for 728-831 damage.  The party got all of her MAGI, and the one that Leon tried to use.  I thought there was more story remaining when Leon, Flora, and Nils left the city, but apparently it was time to move on according to the Prism.


The next world had a town anticipating a dragon race held by Apollo.  None of the weapons in the shop looked appealing, so I ended the session.  The high random encounter rate and episodic worlds make Final Fantasy Legend 2 best suited to short sessions.


Stats and Equipment

HP:  420
STR:  0
DEF:  6
AGL:  91
MANA:  0


5 Lasers
Pa/Po
2 Sabres



Can stats go over 99 like in Legend 1?

[Herman Gigglethorpe]

Final Fantasy Legend 2 All Robots Part 7:  War on Bananas


There were 4 options for Apollo's dragon race:  one that was slow but "very nice", and the 600, 800, and 1000 GP dragons that were supposedly "fast".  I picked the 1000 GP dragon because it was cheap relative to the money earned from random encounters.  You'd think the stables could get away with charging more.


It wasn't a race.  Sure, the Robots rode around a track on a dragon, but it was just another dungeon with random encounters in disguise.  Adamant tortoises must have been made by the programmer at GameFreak that has Pelipper cast Protect over and over.  They served the same purpose, since weapon durability is basically PP from Pokemon.  Besides the trivial random battles, there were a few fixed encounters that yielded MAGI after the Robots defeated them.


Apollo congratulated ROBO, DEMI, WREN, and DATA on their success, but also let out an evil laugh.  No more MAGI left, so it was time to take the Pillar of Sky to the next world.


This dimension looked like Tokugawa era Japan, instead of the futuristic Japan from Legend 1.  The plot of this world was a detective story.  Hana the "flatfoot" was investigating the death of her father at the hands of Echigoya.  What crime was Echigoya trying to cover up?  Banana smuggling.  This is the part of Legend 2 that everyone makes fun of, including another character in the game.  The "bananas" are opium in the original Japanese according to Legends of Localization. 


"Oh!  I wanna eat Bananas!  I don't know why but Bananas are not allowed in this world".


The Hatamotos were blocking the way to the bridge in Edo, so the Robots cut them to pieces for at least 804 damage each.  There were 5 of them, just enough to ensure a fatal 489 power Magnum shot to WREN.  Hana convinced the Hatamotos to run away afterwards by calling them "impolite".


I experimented with a couple of weapons in Edo's shops.  The Laser gun boosted Agility to 99 (at least), but dealt a disappointing 372 damage to a Tarantla (sic).  A CatClaw was much more effective when it stabbed for 1217.


Taro's classroom in Hana's hometown was now open.  One student was learning English, and another asked if an octopus and squid had 16 legs total.  I said "no" and got it right.  The last student pondered the "infinite regression" theological problem:  if the ancient gods made the world, then who made the gods?  Ask Jinasena about that one. . .


Stats and Equipment


I could only afford two CatClaws as of the end of the episode, so there are two separate loadouts.


HP:  483
STR:  0
DEF:  6
AGL:  99 (?)
MANA:  0


5 Lasers
Pa/Po
1 Sabre
1 CatClaw


HP:  420
STR:  0
DEF:  6
AGL:  91
MANA:  0


5 Lasers
Pa/Po
2 Sabres

[Herman Gigglethorpe]

Final Fantasy Legend 2 All Robots Part 8:  Most Interesting Resurrection Mechanic In A Video Game


DATA returned to the southern shop in Edo and threatened the caricatured Clerk with "Tell me or you. . .".  This intimidated him enough to reveal that the banana shipment was in "the harbor south".  The ship functioned as another dungeon with typical enemies at this point like Fairies, Mosquitoes, and Gazers.  At the end, Hana and Taro said they had enough evidence of contraband bananas to arrest Echigoya at the Court.


Hana joined the party as a guest with 473 HP, 46 STR, 49 DEF, 62 AGL, and 39 MANA.  Her Sypha and Coin abilities were worthless, but Temptat could confuse enemies on occasion.  On the way out of the banana boat, an "unexpected attack" by a Boulder petrified DATA with StoneGas.  Didn't know Robots could even be petrified!  So the party had to return to town and buy Softs before proceeding.


The Judge found no evidence of bananas in Echigoya's ship, probably because the Edo government was corrupt.  Kame the tortoise who raised Hana was injured by Echigoya's minions and had to rest.  I had enough money to buy more CatClaws, and I wanted to test if raising Agility over the visible 99 value would increase damage.  Against a Tarantla, DATA swung for 1431 power vs. ROBO with 1218 and WREN with 1166.  A second battle showed similar results, so stacking Agility weapons was still worthwhile.


Sho-gun and Echigoya congratulated each other on their villainy:  "HA-HA. .That is a very nice compliment.  But not as bad as you, Echigoya!"  I didn't realize a boss fight would be on the other side of the door, so one Robot entered the fight with only 112/483 HP.  There was 1 Echigoya with a Partisan sprite and 9 Hatamotos. 


DATA's Catclaw hacked Echigoya apart for 1380 damage on Turn 1.  The other 3 Robots killed 3 of the Hatamotos next.  A Bazooka blast to DATA hit him for 481 damage, and a 439 Magnum shot killed him.  Katana swings missed the other characters due to their Agility.  Hatamotos whiffed Katana attacks on Turn 2 as well, and one drank an X-Cure.  A 507 Bazooka blew WREN to pieces.  ROBO was the sole survivor by the end of the fight, and a 1246 CatClaw swipe won a close victory.


Taro replaced Hana as a guest after the battle.  He was much more competent than she, with 551 HP, 63 STR, 56 DEF, 60 AGL, and 45 MANA.  His best weapon was the Muramas which could actually kill enemies alongside the Robots.  The next stop was the Sho-gun's castle.  Commandos shot with Fire guns for 241 damage if allowed to live for a round.


I tried to steal the Muramas from Taro, but guest characters can't be unequipped in Legend 2.  Boo! 


Just before the Shogun fight, there was an encounter with Ninjas, Stonemen, and Knights that the Robots couldn't flee from.  I have no idea why.  Are some random battles impossible to escape like in Final Fantasy 1?  After reloading a save, the Robots talked to Sho-gun, a dandy with an Elizabethan collar and a paper fan.  Sho-gun died in one round with the help of Taro's Muramas, which hit his weakness for 1000 damage.


A demon called Magnate killed Sho-gun when he begged for help and teleported the Robots to the castle roof. . .immediately activating a random battle.  The encounter rate in Legend 2 is like a parody of old RPGs!


Magnate had the honor of first Game Over of the playthrough.  His Tornado on Turn 2 hit the entire party for 519-540 damage.  DEMI lasted until Turn 3, when another Tornado sent the Robots to Valhalla.  Odin resurrected the party as einherjar if they promised to fight him in the future.  This sent the Robots back to the Magnate fight.


CatClaws swiped at Magnate for 536-643 damage each, while Taro's Muramas cut him for 340.  Magnate whiffed with his Katana on Turn 1.  Thunder zapped WREN for 477 damage on Turn 2, but he clung to life with 6/483 HP.  A final CatClaw attack from WREN destroyed Magnate and got the team 30,800 GP, more than enough for another CatClaw purchase.


WREN was eager about finding the final 10 MAGI.  One was in a chest at the entrance to a "nasty dungeon" in the next dimension.  The fairy guarding it surrendered the MAGI without a fight, making the rest of the dungeon optional.


The next world after the "nasty dungeon" was Valhalla itself.  It had a large cloud overworld considering there were no towns or dungeons apart from Odin's palace.  Enemies included Answerer swords, CatWoman enemies that looked like werewolves, and Nitemare horses.  I remember some of them being tough, but I didn't record many of the fights as Switch video clips at the time.  I was mainly annoyed at the encounter rate. 


One of the most ridiculous moments of the playthrough happened at the Odin battle.  He came with a Sleipnir and 2 OdinCrow allies.  Did you know bosses can "unexpected attack" the party?  Well, Odin did that, and struck down the entire party with Lightning.  I needed Odin to resurrect the party so they could fight him fairly!


It seemed best to go for Odin directly on Turn 1 instead of bothering with the monsters.  CatClaw slashed the Norse god for 630-680 damage, and a 1153 power Gungnir pierced ROBO's circuitry and should have killed him permanently.  None of the team had more than 582 HP!  On Turn 2, Odin died as OdinCrows and Sleipnir missed with their attacks.  Two CatClaw swings eliminated Sleipnir on Turn 3, and WREN slaughtered the final OdinCrow on Turn 4 for 1256 damage.


The party advanced to Final World and met Apollo again.  He revealed his true intentions as if they weren't obvious enough.  Apollo was using the Robots to gather the 76 MAGI, and he had the 77th and final one.  (Wait, you can become a god with only 1 MAGI?)  Apollo summoned a scaly bird Minion who died in one round, but not before breathing Flame at the entire party for 301-327 damage.  In the late game, it seems Agility isn't enough to guarantee turn order priority, unless you have to go over 200 or something.


Apollo stole the MAGI in the next cutscene and vowed to make his own world to replace the decaying multiverse.  Dad joined the party again after inexplicably surviving the Ninja battle several worlds ago.  He told the Robots that there were really 78 MAGI, and that the Guardians concealed the existence of one of them in case of a scenario like this.  The Robots needed to go to Final Dungeon to find it, and Dad joined the party as a guest once more.  (Do the residents of this world call it that because they know they're in a linear RPG?)


Unfortunately, Pillar of Sky checks for MAGI every time you try to open a door, making Final World a point of no return.  For this reason, I reloaded a save from before Final World to explore Nasty Dungeon.


Nasty Dungeon had many difficult enemies for Robots since they had elemental attacks.  Humans from Legend 1 would have been happy to face them with their DRAGON armor, but this variant was weak to magic.  FireMoth spewed Flame to the party for 270-305 damage.  LavaWorm also breathed Flame for 260-291.  SnowCats summoned Blizzard against the party for 229-253 and could initiate "unexpected attack".  Demons shot Fire for 390s damage and came in groups, which was often enough to shut down at least one Robot.


In the Nasty Dungeon, the party died often and there was no Odin to revive them.  A Game Over after Valhalla simply kicked me to the title screen.  If Legend 2 didn't have a save anywhere feature, it would have a reputation as one of the hardest RPGs near the end.  Descending into Nasty Dungeon was worth it for the equipment.  Some of it was armor or Strength based weapons, but even those could be sold to buy more CatClaws.  Not sure if the explosive weapons like Missile are worth it, so I didn't sell everything.


Encounters in Nasty Dungeon were inconsistent, and not always hard.  On what must have been the 4th floor, a single CatWoman appeared and immediately died to a 1894 CatClaw slash from DATA.


Stats and Equipment


Once again, the loadouts are not evenly distributed.  There will be two sets of stats to reflect this.


DATA


HP:  726
STR:  0
DEF:  6
AGL:  99 (+?)
MANA:  0


7 CatClaws
Pa/Po


DEMI, WREN, and ROBO


HP:  690
STR:  0
DEF:  6
AGL:  99 (+?)
MANA:  0


1 Laser
6 CatClaws
Pa/Po

[T-hawk]

Did you know bosses can "unexpected attack" the party? Well, Odin did that

Yes, I specifically remember Odin doing that, and resetting my Gameboy a very angry number of times.

I wanted to test if raising Agility over the visible 99 value would increase damage. Against a Tarantla, DATA swung for 1431 power vs. ROBO with 1218 and WREN with 1166.

Ha, that might have been the key point I didn't know back in the day. I'm fairly sure I don't remember getting up to four-digit damage with my robots way back when.

[Herman Gigglethorpe]

Ha, that might have been the key point I didn't know back in the day.  I'm fairly sure I don't remember getting up to four-digit damage with my robots way back when.

Today I looked up the weapons on a wiki and found out why CatClaws are so good for Robots.


The damage formula is (Agility X 13), and each CatClaw adds 22 Agility.  So a Robot's true Agility score is 154 when all 7 equipment slots are filled with CatClaws.  Apparently the Pa/Po armor is the source of Robot status immunities.


Guns and Bows don't use stats for damage, which explains why they pale in comparison to Rapier, Sabre, Laser, and CatClaw.  Whips are the most questionable weapon class, since they use Strength for damage but add Agility to Robot stats.  No wonder they were so weak when I tried to use them!