RBPBEM FfH #1 [SPOILERS] Sareln of the Svartalfar

[Sareln]

Oi, this is getting complicated...

(1:13:23 PM) Sareln: alright, I am back to having normal internet.
(1:13:37 PM) bobchillingworth: howdy!
(1:13:46 PM) bobchillingworth: okay so I have put a lot of thought into your proposal
(1:14:19 PM) bobchillingworth: personally, while it doesn't work well from a gameplay perspective, it would be fun and in the roleplaying spirit, I think
(1:14:38 PM) bobchillingworth: plus keeping around another body to later fight selrahc again or whoever is nice
(1:14:50 PM) bobchillingworth: however, Nubian is the heart of my economy
(1:15:07 PM) bobchillingworth: it only works two tiles right now, but those are a floodplain farm and a plains gold mine
(1:15:30 PM) bobchillingworth: if I lend you the city, I lose about half my beakers per turn and Prespur goes into unhappiness
(1:15:46 PM) Sareln: hrm
(1:16:08 PM) bobchillingworth: so, basically what it comes down to is how long you're going to be in that jungle
(1:16:20 PM) Sareln: let me go grab my map.
(1:16:57 PM) bobchillingworth: if I have to gift the city for a couple turns, then I can live with that. If it's for a half dozen, then my beeline to vampires is going to be severely set back, and having you as a vassal doesn't count for much if the hippus or illians roll me over
(1:17:11 PM) Sareln: right
(1:19:42 PM) bobchillingworth: one other issue- I can't make OB with you because we both lack cartography. Nubia has three lizardman lairs all within 2 to 4 tiles of it
(1:20:17 PM) bobchillingworth: I guess I'd have to gift it, then declare on you, then move my 3 bloodpet garrison to cover
(1:20:40 PM) Sareln: yeah... that timing may be bad
(1:20:49 PM) Sareln: since there's a barb turn between mine and yours.
(1:21:02 PM) bobchillingworth: I haven't loaded the file for today yet
(1:21:06 PM) bobchillingworth: I'll do that now
(1:21:12 PM) bobchillingworth: see if they spawned anyone new
(1:27:44 PM) bobchillingworth: okay
(1:27:49 PM) bobchillingworth: they haven't done anything
(1:28:08 PM) bobchillingworth: so. when would you need the city, and for how long do you estimate?
(1:28:21 PM) Sareln: closest spot is 4 turns distant. 3 to move, 1 to settle
(1:28:38 PM) Sareln: I'll need nubia after this next turn
(1:29:00 PM) Sareln: since Selrahc can do the whole move-summon thing. I need to leave some units behind in the cap to make sure he can't just win that way.
(1:29:41 PM) bobchillingworth: he won't see the settler flee?
(1:29:58 PM) Sareln: he'll see a settler in the capital
(1:30:07 PM) Sareln: if he moved his ice elementals the way I would've this turn
(1:30:17 PM) Sareln: but the settler moves 3 squares this turn.
(1:30:23 PM) Sareln: in the opposite direction of his approach
(1:30:35 PM) Sareln: but it can move 3 squares either north-east or south-east or south-west
(1:30:37 PM) Sareln: he can't know.
(1:31:33 PM) bobchillingworth: hmm. Does seem though like he might just hunt your down with the priests
(1:31:39 PM) bobchillingworth: not like he has much else to do with them
(1:32:01 PM) bobchillingworth: either that or kill someone else, I guess
(1:32:42 PM) bobchillingworth: I wonder... do you think that you could get PB or Cull to lend you a city, and then I could found you a new town somewhere safe, like in my backlines
(1:32:58 PM) bobchillingworth: I haven't explored too far to my south, but there's a lot of trees in the tundra
(1:33:04 PM) Sareln: hmm
(1:33:08 PM) Sareln: what would I offer Cull?
(1:33:12 PM) bobchillingworth: I wouldn't ask for full vassalage in that case
(1:33:53 PM) bobchillingworth: perhaps he could claim one of your palace mana, I get another, and we both get NAPs and the occasional elve and free FoL spread from you
(1:34:00 PM) bobchillingworth: elven worker, I mean
(1:34:09 PM) Sareln: hmm, that would be doable
(1:35:47 PM) Sareln: tough one to write though - how do I convince them to go for it w/out revealing you?
(1:36:45 PM) bobchillingworth: I'm finishing a settler in 5 turns; that one I need for myself, but then I can build another for you in about 7 turns; they just need to host you until you can found in the jungle, and then you only have to survive there until I get set up something better for you
(1:36:52 PM) bobchillingworth: well mention me openly
(1:37:02 PM) bobchillingworth: since it would be a collaborative arrangement
(1:37:29 PM) bobchillingworth: anyone watching the diplo screens will know that cities are changing hands anyway
(1:40:53 PM) bobchillingworth: I'm going to end my turn for right now, since you don't need a city until next turn, unless you have any objections?
(1:41:04 PM) Sareln: that should be fine
(1:41:08 PM) bobchillingworth: also PB might be a better temp city gifter than cull
(1:41:33 PM) bobchillingworth: he's got more to spare, and he's actually online :P
(1:41:38 PM) Sareln: heh
(1:41:39 PM) Sareln: alright
(1:41:46 PM) Sareln: would you like to chat him up first or me?
(1:41:49 PM) Sareln: or do you even have contact?

[Sareln]

Hi PB,

I find myself in need of a temporary home while I flee from the
Illians with a settler. I have already secured a promise of a more
permanent home and would be willling to offer you gold, maps, 1 of the
palace mana (the Calabim have dibs on another) and a supply of elven
workers. I also have the map information that I have assembled, and
have already acquired hunting, though have not had the opportunity to
saturate the maps with my scouts.

The Calabim state that they are able to provide me with permanent
settlement in 13 turns + move-time. They would offer me a temporary
spot, but their additional city is surrounded by barbarians, making
such moves folly. My own settler will flee far from the Illians. So
the timeline looks something like this:

You loan me a city --> I found another city in a safe spot and you
reclaim yours --> The Calabim found me a permanent settlement, and I
rebuild from there, perhaps keeping the temporary outpost, perhaps
scrapping it / giving it over to the barbs, or handing it over to
either you or the Calabim.

Time is something of a critical factor in these negotiations, so
please follow up with either a positive or negative reaction as soon
as possible.

Sincerely,

Sareln

P.S. And now you know why the turn took so much longer than normal to
get through Bob... he says this is starting to sound like a CIV
pyramid scheme :P.

[Sareln]

(1:59:04 PM) pocketbeetle: Hey
(1:59:14 PM) pocketbeetle: Just replied, sorry I really can't help here
(1:59:26 PM) Sareln: kk, no worries.
(1:59:29 PM) pocketbeetle: If you can get Bob to aid, go for it

[Sareln]

(2:13:54 PM) P B: So are you utterly screwed then? Or can Bob help you?
(2:14:26 PM) Sareln: We need an additional sponsor. The barb activity around Nubia means that even if Bob wanted to, loaning me the city wouldn't do much.
(2:15:31 PM) Sareln: I rewrote my message and sent one along to the Dwarves. Though they haven't been particularly active this game message-wise, so I don't know what sort of participatory resonse we would get from them.
(2:16:04 PM) P B: Yeah. Do you have contact with the Hippus? Can Bob not move some warriors up to protect?
(2:16:13 PM) Sareln: I have contact with everyone.
(2:16:17 PM) Sareln: I'm just working in order
(2:16:31 PM) Sareln: mainly b/c with the dwarves, they're close enough I can offer to place my temp city on their dotmap, know what I mean?
(2:16:58 PM) P B: I understand. Okay, well I hope it works out
(2:17:05 PM) Sareln: so do I :D

[Sareln]

Cull, Athlete,

I find myself in need of a temporary home while I flee from the
Illians with a settler. I have already secured a promise of a more
permanent home and would be willling to offer you gold, maps, 1 of the
palace mana (the Calabim have dibs on another) and a supply of elven
workers. Additionally, if I manage to secure FoL (I have reason to
believe that PB is pursuing it as well) I will offer religion, and be
amicable myself to spreading RoK within my lands if you found it
yourselves. I also have the map information that I have assembled,
and have already acquired hunting, though have not had the opportunity
to saturate the maps with my scouts.

The Calabim state that they are able to provide me with permanent
settlement in 13 turns + move-time. They would offer me a temporary
spot, but their additional city is surrounded by barbarians, making
such moves folly. My own settler will flee far from the Illians. So
the timeline looks something like this:

You loan me a city --> I found another city in a safe spot and you
reclaim yours --> The Calabim found me a permanent settlement, and I
rebuild from there, perhaps keeping the temporary outpost, perhaps
scrapping it / giving it over to the barbs, or handing it over to
either you.

Time is something of a critical factor in these negotiations, my
settler's party fled the capital this last turn, so please follow up
with either a positive or negative reaction as soon as possible.

Sincerely,

Sareln

P.S. Bob is saying that this is starting to sound like a CIV Pyramid Scheme.
P.P.S. Additionally, find attached the mapping data of our mutual
north. I somehow doubt that the information will be useful to me any
more.

Sure.

Go to the city screen and ask for the only city that should be there.

Glad to help.

-Cull

That worked? Holy crap, that wasn't supposed to work!! If Cull/Athlete play before Selrahc my asking for it next turn works. Else they'll need to offer it I think - this assumes that both teams need to agree to a deal for the game to recognize it. Does anyone know how that works in PBEM?

[Adlain]

I would imagine that if cull offered you the city, you have to have accepted it before your capital is wiped out and Visa Versa if you asked for the city, Cull has to have aggreed before your capital is wiped out.

[Sareln]

Thanks Adlain.

Thank you.

Due to timing and getting the deal through before Selrahc kills me, You need to offer me the city (so that I can accept the deal on my turn). If I ask for the city, Selrahc goes before you do and kills me dead before you can affirm the deal (if I'm reading the turn-order and diplo resolutions rules for PBEM correctly).

-Sareln-

[Sareln]

Such a weird place to be, waiting for the turn to see if Cull things stacked out correctly...

[Sareln]

This conversation will be hilarious in retrospect if Cull comes through.

I suppose I could have offered to capitulate to Selrahc, but honestly, I don't think that would've worked out so hot for me in the longish run, at least compared the exile and flee business we've got set up right now, - especially since someone needs to die for Selrahc to make Drifa.

(12:29:40 PM) Selrahc: hEY
(12:29:48 PM) Sareln: what's up?
(12:29:52 PM) Selrahc: *Hey
(12:30:02 PM) Selrahc: Nothing much
(12:30:09 PM) Selrahc: 5 mins to kill
(12:30:27 PM) Selrahc: Just thought I'dsee if there was anything to discuss
(12:30:33 PM) Selrahc: I
(12:30:39 PM) Selrahc: 8think*
(12:30:42 PM) Selrahc: Ugh
(12:31:07 PM) Selrahc: I think I should eliminate you next turn
(12:31:18 PM) Sareln: it's definitely a possibility.
(12:31:31 PM) Sareln: probably a favored one if one were to make odds.
(12:31:51 PM) Selrahc: Any offers or anything?
(12:32:31 PM) Sareln: I've got a whole bunch of nothing. You've seen the land, it's not particularly rich...
(12:32:41 PM) Selrahc: Yeah.
(12:33:06 PM) Selrahc: I guess you're as okay as it is possible then?
(12:33:23 PM) Sareln: Yeah
(12:33:27 PM) Selrahc: No last minute compromises
(12:33:40 PM) Selrahc: Sorry for basically screwing your game
(12:33:44 PM) Sareln: eh.
(12:33:48 PM) Sareln: it was a cool rush
(12:33:58 PM) Sareln: did you manage to pick the Great Commander out of a dungeon somewhere?
(12:34:18 PM) Sareln: b/c seeing the Str. 9 PoW was pretty awesome.
(12:34:36 PM) Selrahc: Yeah,
(12:34:44 PM) Selrahc: Dumb luck
(12:34:52 PM) Sareln: heh
(12:35:31 PM) Sareln: yeah, in retrospect, I don't know if there's much I can do as Svart versus an Illian that close
(12:36:02 PM) Sareln: other than dial you up really ealy and go "hey, we need an NAP until turn 110 or else I'm going to choke you with warriors" - I'd fail, but it's a blind bluff threat, know what I mean?
(12:36:54 PM) Selrahc: Alright, well I'm glad you didn't do that and I'm heading out now. This is my salute to you as a valiant opponent. See you.
(12:37:07 PM) Sareln: Ciao

[Sareln]

Turn 78:

(4:44:10 PM) Sareln: last priest of winter picked up ICE II this turn, thought you should know. :P
(4:44:28 PM) P B: Hey
(4:44:36 PM) P B: Everything working out?
(4:46:07 PM) Sareln: Well, I'm not dead... that's a start I suppose :D
(4:46:24 PM) P B: Okay, good for you

The dwarves came through with it, and I picked up the Dwarf expansion and evacuated my capital. I sent two warriors north in LOS and the rest south/east. Selrahc might be able to see me if he gets lucky, but double-moving elves means he won't have a prayer to catch me.