[Spoilers] Mahala in the Mist - the Doviello

[Mist]

It seems to be a custom in these parts to throw in a nice opening picture, so let's have one of these...



That should work. If you're a player or don't wish to be spoiled go away or I'll feed you to the wolf :neenernee

[Mist]

Hi, everyone. Welcome in the second FFH PBEMs underdog thread

Why the underdog? Because, apart from the fact that the Doviello have a lot in common with wolves, looking at the other leaders/civs in play I'm odds on to be royally screwed


But let's do things in proper order -


[SIZE="4"]I. The setting[/SIZE]

This is a Fall From Heaven 2 game. A total fantasy conversion mod that changes almost everything about Civ 4 and gives you arguably more interesting, if less balanced and polished game. I will not go into details here, there's simply to much of it to cram into one post, but I'll try to describe things in depth as I go.

I might fail, but hey, it's my first PBEM report, give me some leeway

II. The opposition
... or why it's going to hurt

Most ( all? ) of the players in the game seem to have higher skills and more MP experience than me. That's not a real deal-breaker, the game will proceed in it's own slowish pace giving me time to catch up, and Sareln's lurking ( I told it before, but it doesn't hurt to repeat - Nice to have you here ) should help as well. But the leaders in play...

Flauros and Hannah are the most powerful picks in FFH. Period. And they are handled by people who know how to use them. To top it up we've got Beeri which is Financial/Industrious, completely unpredictable Perpentach and quite solid Varn Gosam But I won't deny, it could be worse. Someone could have requested Keelyn :P

So what exactly are we up to? Let's sort them out by perceived threat



1) Hannah the Irin - Lanun ( Financial - Raider )

Lanun are a water civ. They get extra food from water tiles. They have the best fleet in the game ( Hero unit + UU ). Their land units can board and capture enemy fleets. They get a worldspell that causes tsunami everywhere except their own lands. They get an unique, sea-based luxury resource in pearls. They get an UB that gives them even more commerce. They can improve coast tiles ( with some restrictions ) to pirate coves that in 21 turns ( on normal speed ) upgrade into pirate port for +2/+2/+4 bonus on top of a coast tile. Lovely ain't it?
Hannah herself is Financial/Raider, so left alone she'll outtech everyone and eventually raid them into oblivion.

I can't hope to keep up with her tech progress in the long run. I'll have very little to pillage in her land and can't expect to make any lasting impression by trying. I can't think of any sure way to hurt her progress that doesn't involve war. All this makes her a threat number one and a target to kill on sight. Harsh, but if I can do it, it will happen. Sooner than later.



2) Flauros - Calabim ( Financial - Organised )

And the bloodsuckers strike back, infesting yet another PBEM. Flauros is a much stronger leader than Decius, he gets the leeches faster due to being financial ( aristofarms :P ), builds mansions faster because of organised, and pops the units with initial xp due to command posts. So yes, let us welcome the familiar pestilence from PBEM I but this time in leaner, meaner and more efficient version Like they need any help :P

They are, due to the units at hand, probably more dangerous than Hannah, but there is a way to throw an early wrench at them. Especialy when they start evil due to Flauros. They need good, improved land if they are to produce a lot of vamps and feast often, so they are vulnerable to early pillaging and things that literally break the world - the Deepening, Armageddon Counter and Hell terrain. I plan to throw the latter two at them After all if your playmates are hellish strong, give them Hell. Literally But if I can't get Hannah early they are the second target to kill on sight. Who knows, it just might happen.



3-4) Perpentach - Balseraph ( Charismatic - Creative - Arcane - Insane ) / Van Gosam - Malakim ( Spiritual - Creative [ Adaptive ] )

That's a tie. I rate Baseraph higher than Malakim, but Illios seems to know his way around FFH, while Serdoa has no idea what the Balseraph are all about. So he can hit the ground running with them or mismanage them horribly. Neither of these two makes for a very lethal threat (just, you know, slightly lethal :] ), they are both non-obvious in approach required, and I can reasonably expect to stand up to them for most of the time RNG and events permitting. I just need to keep Malakim from Sun and Fire mana, Perpentach is evil and should suffer from hell terrain early.



5) Beeri Bawl - Lurchip ( Financial - Industrial )

Normally I'd put them at third in this ranking. In hands of a skilled player Lurchip can be highly dangerous, Sciz, by his own admission is not a highly skilled player. It'll all boil down to two things - how fast he'll get the Barnaxus and how good he'll be at levelling him up. If he screws up any of those he'll be little more than a pillaging target, his golems are expensive and really need the bonus. On the plus side his financial/industrial dwarf so he should tech reasonably fast and get any wonder he wants. So yes, it's possible that I'm underestimating him, but looking at the trail of games I'm still more wary of Serdoa and Ilios.



6) Arendel Phaedra - Ljosalfar ( Creative - Spiritual )

Anyone that saw how Sareln's game went so far should understand why those guys come last. They have very little going for them early on and need hell lot of time to get the economy started. What's more light elves are much more defensive in play and Arendel is a builders pick. It looks like a long game praying for people to hit someone else until they get the Frydwell and a bunch of mages, but by then I expect them to have a hard time influencing the game in any way. Unless of course uberfish noticed something I did not. Which is possible.

I'll sum it up with a quote from the initial thread

Good idea to have a new bunch of civs, without some of the *ahem* grossly overpowered ones in the current game. I'm looking forward to lurking.

I'd really love this to be true :P Shame it ain't happening.

[Maksim]

Hi there! I'll definitely be lurking with interest - hope you keep up with the updates as the game goes on.

That's some nice pre-game analysis, but let me point that Hannah can be quite weak if she starts inland, or if the map does not have any water at all. It's still a Financial\Raiders civilization, good at teching and capable of mobile warfare, but not so overpowered compared to everyone else.

Also, are Luchuirp that good? Even at top level (Empower 5), golems only get +50% strength, they can't improve further and they are slow. I haven't played with them much, so may be I am missing some strategy here (wouldn't be the first time!).

[Sareln]

Checking in.

[Mist]

Hi there! I'll definitely be lurking with interest - hope you keep up with the updates as the game goes on.

Welcome and thank you. I hope to keep the monsters of RL realm at bay and update diligently.

That's some nice pre-game analysis, but let me point that Hannah can be quite weak if she starts inland, or if the map does not have any water at all. It's still a Financial\Raiders civilization, good at teching and capable of mobile warfare, but not so overpowered compared to everyone else.

That's true. But while it would be tempting to assume that ( I should probably bribe SevenSpirits some more ) I kind of go along the worst case scenarios here. It's the same as with elves and forests, they can also get a forest-less start or a map with plenty of water ( and thus suck even more ) but I can't assume it happens.

Also, are Luchuirp that good? Even at top level (Empower 5), golems only get +50% strength, they can't improve further and they are slow. I haven't played with them much, so may be I am missing some strategy here (wouldn't be the first time!).

They get free fireball with blasting chamber. With enchant mana and adepts they can be enchanted/repaired on the go. They are resistant to high AC counter - don't go mad/withered/diseased etc. Gargoyles are cheap and build faster with marble. He's almost guaranteed to have iron (Arete->rush Mines). He can pull Basium into the world pretty quick.
If he grabs the Prophecy, AV holy city, summons Basium and pushes up the AC counter fast he'll be very, very dangerous. And I don't even want to think about what can happen if he gets mithril

Anyway, there's a post due with my plans soonish*. There'll be pictures! Poor attempts at storyteling! Plenty of bad and weird ideas! And cookies!

So stay tuned and come to the dark side. Remeber, we have cookies

[SIZE="1"]*soonish defined as used by Sirian, author shall not be held liable if it does not, in fact, come soon[/SIZE]

[Mist]

Since I've (not) described the setting and (barely) described the opposition it's time for the most important point

[SIZE="4"]III. The home team[/SIZE]

So how on earth did I end with them?

People that read the original thread might have noticed I initially opted for Perpentach.

To be honest I did want to play him. The leader has tons of roleplaying potential and general fun packed in ( it's a psycho clown there's nothing more fun than a psycho clown in a strategy game ) but the faction itself is also pretty solid with freaks, mimics, puppets and whole new take on "culture war" concept. It's even more solid with Keelyn, but Keelyn is as broken as Flauros on pangea and Hannah on the archipelago maps. I don't enjoy playing leaders that are that strong.

So I opted for the clowns, but two other people went for them as well, and that made me reconsider. There were other interesting picks to be taken, and I decided I'd rather take something that most likely would not be touched by others and prepare/test some likely strategies for the game. And thus came the Doviello.

There is not a lot of backstory for them, and the things present are somewhat conflicting, but let's try to sum it up in a coherent way.

When the Age of Ice begun, and the winter god Mulcarn walked the land, most of the survivors hid in the caves to wait for better times. These that did not, or could not, had two choices - submit to the White Hand priests or try to survive on the frozen wasteland. Doviello formed from the latter and due to living conditions and influence of the first leader Charadon quickly evolved into a human wolf-pack - ruthless, merciless, efficient hunters preying on disorganised stragglers in the snow and from time to time doing mercenary work for Illians.
Everything came to a distinct halt when they came across Amurites. Archmage Kylorin defeated them single-handedly and forced them to turn on their former paymasters. That was enough of a distraction to allow Kylorin to duel and kill Mulcarn. And the rest is history.

From the gameplay point of view they are probably the most underrated faction in FFH. They don't tech well, they lack a lot of +% buildings like library, the worldspell is hard to time right. But what people usually don't see is that they are one of the best to go to war with.

• The palace gives -40% war weariness, body (haste) and chaos (dance of blades) mana.
  
• Warriors have a bonus to city attack.
  
• Axemen and shamans are cheap and you don't need mages guilds/training yards to field them.
  
• Workers and slaves can upgrade to soldiers.
  
• Upgrades are cheaper than usual and don't have to be performed in a friendly city.
  

It all adds up to being able to war earlier, harder and longer than anyone ( with a possible exception of Bannor in crusade mode ) else. And that's before you apply leader traits. Speaking of which - meet Mahala.

She (yes, she) is not your typical Doviello. She may be a merciless and ruthless human killing machine, but she understands and appreciates that times are changing and strongly believes that if her people are to survive they need to move forward. Or at least get better weapons and get rid of the headstrong and stubborn fools. Like Charadon. And she dreams about Falamar. Seriously, is there a woman in this setting that does not dream about that guy?

Mahala is a raider. That means her troops can use enemy roads and earn more gold from pillaging. Mahala is ingenious. That means she starts with 50gp and her upgrades cost half the price. If you take into account that Doviello upgrades are already cheaper it gives you... much fun. Worker->Warrior upgrade is 10gp. Warrior->Axeman is 20gp. Let me restate that, because it's bloody important.

[SIZE="3"]Upgrading warrior to axeman costs twenty gold.[/SIZE]

And it goes on like that across the tiers. So not only she can war earlier, longer and harder than anyone. She can also war cheaper and make a killing in the process. You just have to love this girl.

All of above, and some browsing through Civfanatics, gave a birth to The Plan. Which shall be detailed soonish* in the next post. Along with the cookies and poor attempts at storytelling promised earlier.

[SIZE="1"]*For definition of soonish see previous post[/SIZE]

[Mardoc]

Sounds like us lurkers will have some real excitement in this game!

I wonder if extortion has any role in The Plan? I know you can't take their tech, but I'd think a sufficiently inventive victim could come up with something you'd want...

[Mist]

Sounds like us lurkers will have some real excitement in this game!

I wonder if extortion has any role in The Plan? I know you can't take their tech, but I'd think a sufficiently inventive victim could come up with something you'd want...

Ha! I certainly hope so It pretty much depends on how the game pans out in the early turns, but I'll definitely have a stab at excitement and extortion. That actually makes for a new unique take on 4X game - eXplore, eXpand, eXcite and eXtort

Anyhow, back to business :

[SIZE="5"]IV. The Plan[/SIZE]

The basic idea is that everyone, including me, plays to win. Well perhaps everyone except uberfish, I still don't know what was he thinking by taking Arendel. So as soon as Balseraph became a nonstarter and Doviello caught my eye, I went for a hunt for possibilities. And came upon this simple idea

[SIZE="3"]Stage 1[/SIZE]
...or let's keep it simple.

Beeline to Festivals (~30 turns) while pumping beastmen, 1 worker to improve callendar/farm sites, two settlers. Build markets and carnivals everywhere. Get Exploration for roads, beeline Bronze Working. Settle first great merchant in the capital. Hook up the bronze.

At this point depending on huts, events and barb activity we should be at around turn 85, have 15-20 warriors and over 300gp in the bank. Upgrade everything but garrisons and go to war steamrollering over neighbours. Turn 85 is roughly the time Selrahc did his White Priest rush. I don't think there will be anyone able to resist a dozen of bronze upgraded axemen at turn 85.

Simple.

Downsides? Won't work on a map with water. On large maps is kind of suicidal. Would be enough to kill at most two civs. Leaves me up there as a spent force and prime target for everyone still alive.

Stage 1 would work, I was happy enough to go ahead with the pick, but at the same time I was sure it could do better with less downsides. So I went to consult wise words on civfanatics. And that gave birth to

[SIZE="3"]Stage 2[/SIZE]
...or greed is good.

Early wars are expensive and population to unit count ratio in Stage 1 would hurt my cash flow like Hyborem himself. So what if I could cheaply get more income? Like founding Runes and cashing in? Might work. So the plan was to take Stage 1, get runes before researching Bronze Working, set up the temples and cash in. Building Mines in the capital would give me guaranteed iron and the extra time spent on research before BW would result in more cheap warriors to throw around and better infrastructure around my cities.

Downsides are similar to Stage 1 but less pronounced. My infrastructure would be stronger, I would be able to field larger army, and having a religion+source of iron would be a good platform to carry on forward.

Of course I needed a plan B in case someone showed up with a pick guaranteed to get RoK and the Mines before me. Like Beeri Bawl :P

[SIZE="3"]Stage 2B[/SIZE]
...or I dream of Falamar

Wise people call this setup Doviello with OO meele line. Build temples everywhere. Warrior->Drown->Stygian Guard upgrade gives you a tier 3 unit for 55 gold and it requires Fanaticism which is easier to get than Iron Working. If you need siege you get hasted lunatics and as a bonus you have an early archmage in Hemah.

This version requires a greater detour, as I'd have to get Fishing I would otherwise completely avoid, but is solid, gives water working and has plenty of long time viability. Of course if there's noone that can get it before me. Like Hannah :P

Given time and a bit of luck in the game 2 and 2B could be combined giving me a good stab at the whole winning thing. And then leader picks got announced and I was tempted to do a bit of It was back to the drawing board, and result was

[SIZE="3"]Stage 3[/SIZE]
...or let's give them Hell

So here's how I plan to go at the moment

• Beeline Festivals as usual
  
• Get roads. Hit some targets of opportunity.
  
• Beeline Way of the Wicked. Adopt Slavery. Field a mixed warrior/adept army. Hit some targets of opportunity.
  
• Build Prophecy. Start ramping up AC.
  
• Found AV. Summon Hyborem. Adopt Sacrifice the Weak.
  
• Field some ritualists and go to war. With everyone
  
• See how we go from there.
  

So how do you think? Enough excitement?

Since the post got a bit longish poor attempts at storytelling will get a separate one. Soonish

[Mardoc]

Why yes, that does sound exciting enough!

Are you planning on switching to Hyborem, or playing the Doviello still after the summon? And what's your thought on the human player for Hyborem idea? Would that still be in your advantage, to summon him if a human gets to play him?

[Mist]

Are you planning on switching to Hyborem, or playing the Doviello still after the summon?

No switching. I hardly ever played Hyborem myself. With the Mane and unique city mechanic they differ from the rest of the pack to the point of me stating "I can't play them properly". If I took them it would be a really short Hell invasion

And what's your thought on the human player for Hyborem idea? Would that still be in your advantage, to summon him if a human gets to play him?

I'm generally in favour. Not because it will help as strong, human led, Hyborem will be a long term hindrance, but because it will give people in the game other, more dangerous, thing to worry than me.
Would it be still to my advantage to summon him? Yes. Main points of summoning him from my point of view are :
*)hell terrain spread
It kills aristofarms for evil players, throws elves out of the game (no forests) and pretty much locks everyone affected into Sacrifice the Weak and away from other econ civics.
*)ramping up of the AC counter
*)getting an allied highly aggresive foil to take hits in my place
It will hurt anyone depending on good terrain or good cities for progress. Due to the upgrade costs, lack of certain limitations and buildings I need neither of those two. And AV will boost my lagging tech rate.

Mahala was sitting in the shamans tent looking at the mist covered valley below through the open flap. Mist! For Mulcarn's rotten breath, she didn't even know the word when she was younger. She came here to look for advice, but the old fool was useless as she part-expected. And now he was also rather dead.
-You and your queen will be repaid in kind. I hope you're aware of that.
This was rewarded by a quiet chuckle from the shadows behind her
-Why so sure you won't be next?
-Because you'd find me a completely different proposition from that ageing idiot. And because even your cowardly illusions can't stand to the chaos in this place. What do you want?
One more chuckle, this time with a hint of admiration.
-You're as shrewd as the rumour tells. And you can tell that hulk outside to stand down, I bear a message from the Winter Court.
-Speak. Lucian knows there's no need to interfere.
-The Queen offers her condolences on the death of warleader Charadon, she also wishes to thank you for the ahem... unexpected... entertainment provided. Watching him chase smoke and mirrors and die horribly was apparently highly amusing. Where shall we deliver the corpse?
So it worked. Elves of winter provided to much for that stubborn blood-crazed maniac and he finally died again. There was hope now, they could move forward, carve survival out of this rapidly changing world.
-Leave it to rot. Thank your queen for the kind words and send my apologies that this exchange and... entertainment, can't continue. We're leaving shortly.
-Shame. But such is life. Can I suggest travelling southwards to southeast? Lands down here are excellent for hunting.
-You can. But we'll go wherever we wish. Now be a good coward and disappear.
There was a muffled burst of laughter while Alzakan's image indeed faded away.

***

-So you have your wish. What now? Am I also to die Mahala?
Lucians voice from outside the tent was melancholic and resigned
-Do you wish to? I thought you'd also be happy with Charadon gone.
-Yes. No. Every mindless death we suffer is a waste. But I won't stop you, I might not like the methods, but we need to start growing again. What would you have me do?
-The coward left Charadons ax in the shamans skull. Take it and challenge for leadership. Take it and stand at my side. We leave at dawn.