PBEM4 GREENS Postgame Thread

[Kyan]

The game is dead. Long live the game.

I wanted to say thank you to Jowy, seifer_md, Malakai, Strike666, Twinkletoes, Cull and Tatan for an enjoyable game.

I was planning on winning backdoor democratic win via United Nations which would have been successful within 13 turns or so. The game was pretty much dead as i was at 100% tech permanently at the end and using my naval advantage and 'reserve stack' to force both seifer and Tatan into whipping/drafting into the ground.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Congrats dude. Well won, completely outplayed the competition. It shows that having more population means more than having each population point generating slightly more commerce.

Then again, you had people popping out T36 great scientists before a settler. Very, uh, unique strategy there.

[Speaker]

Did you guys enjoy the map?

[Sullla]

Congrats Kyan. It was clear from about Turn 50 that you were way ahead of everyone else and were going to win. Hope everyone had fun!

[Kyan]

Thank you all.

Speaker- i loved the map. Absolutely fantastic map. There was enough food that dotmapping was a nightmare. A good nightmare. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Cyneheard has planted his city in very different ways (reading greens threads first). Thanks for making it.

Sullla- you may well be right, but i was still worrying all the way through that i'd mess it up somehow. Forcing seifer not to be able to tech away with non-existent military as well as totally controlling the inner sea were my best moves i think. My worst move was allowing TT and Malakai to vassal, especially Malakai. China had been my best buddies all game so i was never gonna betray them. Inca though, well, they'd been in bed with seifer most of the game. I mistakenly thought that if i vassalized him, i would immediately win via domination (since i had enough population already by myself) but i didn't understand the mechanic correctly.

[Tatan]

Well, I guess that means this game is over. Sorry it had to end with my resignation, although it sounds like most of you wanted the game to finish anyway. Even though I only got to play out the last 30 or so turns, I loads of fun with this game; it taught me quite a lot about warfare, too. So, uh, here's the short bit of stuff I've gotten typed up in my spare time.


Although I was continuously optimistic, looking back I realize that by the time I took over there was never a realistic chance of Kyan not winning. Theoretically, I still think it could have been possible, but only if both TT and Malakai joined Seifer and I in one massive dogpile [and maybe not even then!]. But that was simply not going to happen. I do wish that we had had a chance to at least engage Kyan directly instead of having a buffer of vassals in place, though the end result wouldn't have likely changed. There a bunch of things I could say about the vassalizing itself as well, but I've already posted enough of my opinions on the topic in my own thread and in other threads.


In terms of my own gameplay, there were a few things I think I should have done differently. The number one thing is that I really should have gone for Nationalism after Guilds instead of getting Gunpowder. As I played it, I stalled out right as I started research into it due to Kyan's attack. Drafting maces would have been a *vast* improvement over whipping muskets. Arguably, my second major mistake was refusing to whip heavily enough, but I really wanted to keep my economy intact in order to research Nationalism. By the end I was building mostly theatres, with the plan of limping to Nationalism [which was IIRC ~8-10 turns away] and cranking up the culture slider, which would also have allowed me to found some buffer cities in the no-man's land and immediately pop borders. But, alas, 'twas not to be. I also made a bunch of minor mistakes, of course, but most of them didn't matter a whole lot.

Seifer: Thanks for supporting me with all those units and continuing to talk with me throughout; even though everything looked hopeless [and kind of was], it felt good to go down fighting. I just wish I could have helped you more in return.

Malakai: We never had much contact in this game [or, in fact, any at all; sorry about that!], so I can't comment mcuh. Uh, Hi/Bye!

Twinkletoes: Sparring with you on the battle was great, I had a lot of fun with it. Pity that other guy stomped in and ruined the party.

Kyan: Well, you were really irritating throughout the game, but only in the sense of "WHY DOES THIS GUY HAVE MORE CAVS IN MY TERRITORY THAN I HAVE KNIGHTS?!" Anyway, congratulations! I wish it could have played out differently, of course, but you did deserve this win after gathering such an advantage. I stopped reporting after a while, but if you look in my thread you'll be sure to find plenty of posts panicking about you.


So, GG everybody!

[Twinkletoes89]

Well I was waiting for Jowy to slam me first before posting but I'll put my main thoughts down now.

1) The game was as good as over when I took over. Kyan was already powering miles ahead because Strike & Jowy had embroiled themselves in a stupid war which had damaged my civ seriously.

2) The position I was given by Strike was pretty awful. It was on a par with my play in PBEM3, with poorly positioned cities and a seriously struggling economy. The early war was suicidal and tbh he was seriously lucky that Jowy gave him a long NAP (roughly 50 turns I think) when in my eyes, he could have probably finished him or at least extorted more out of him.

3) With this situation, I simply had to focus everything on getting some semblance of an economy going whilst keeping militarily relevant. That left me incapable of making any strike on Kyan as I didn't have the forces to do so, or the support.

4) While it was obvious that Kyan was running away with it, I received no emails for a long, long time suggesting that we do anything about it. I wasn't going to propose it as I had the most to lose and the least to give to an attack. With this silence, I was left with no option.

5) With no support forthcoming, I then started to actively court Kyan. We have a good rapport which made things easier, but given his runaway status I wouldn't have been surprised or blamed him if he had simply ignored me and crushed me at will. Given the option of a stupidly suicidal attack on Kyan with no declared support and coming dead last, or building an alliance with the leader and gain a massive amount of support for an attack on my other neighbour and perhaps come in the top three with Kyan crushing everyone else, I had absolutely no choice. Jowy can bitch all he wants about it (as I am sure he will, and did in some unpleasant emails) but given the same choice, he would have done exactly the same.

6) I chose to vassalise in the end because it was the only way to preserve myself. I had built up a large army with a lot of Kyan's help but I lost it due to being beaten by a worthy opponent who out-manoeuvred me from the start. With no army and the chance that Tatan could attack me and kill me, I vassalised to guarantee that Kyan would defend me and press on to take on Tatan. I also was led to believe that it would bring about the end of the game, so that was another good reason to vassalise.

On the players:

Kyan - a very good ally who assisted me 100% when he could have simply crushed me at will at pretty much any point. Given a little bit of an easy ride early doors to assure victory, but he made the most of it and was truly dominant. Should've been in the vets game

seifer - I don't think we spoke much, if at all, but kudos to you for maintaining a pretty good civ which is always praiseworthy. Had Kyan been challenged more effectively from the start, you could well have had a chance of contesting victory.

malakai & Cull - we barely talked again but GG to you both. An apology to Cull as my hard work to get Kyan on my side ended up with him turning his military on you.

Jowy - no comment

Tatan - it was truly great fun to spar with you. You outclassed me on the battlefield in the fights that matter, but my massive naval invasion made me feel so much better. Truly the most hilarious moment in my civ history! It was fun playing 'Chase the Axe' and other various skirmishes with fun unit names. Would be happy to play another game with you in the future where we don't start as enemies, I imagine fun would still be very much present in our dealings!