FFH PBEM 5 Post game thread

[Square Leg]

In the words of Mrs Merton:

"Lets have a heated debate!"

[Mardoc]

Don't really know what's to debate about . I don't think there's a lot that we disagree about.

The Clan got a massive advantage from the Sons, and we weren't able to translate that into an actual win. Our biggest issues were lack of tech and infrastructure to back up the Sons, and both Sareln and Bob putting up so good a fight that the Sons weren't terrifying anymore by the time we were done.

I think the turning point of the game after that was Esus picking that tiny little city of Bob's for its Holy City. If he'd managed to get Gibbon out in addition to the millions of skeletons, we'd probably be congratulating him instead of Iskender. In any case, Clan going to war without being able to win quickly was a mistake.

The only other serious strategic mistake (I made of lot of tactical errors v Iskender) was letting Square Leg buy peace. He got the amount perfect - enough to seem like a fortune, but not enough to actually get to a relevant tech.

[Square Leg]

Don't really know what's to debate about . I don't think there's a lot that we disagree about.

Agreed - but I had the line in my head at the time!

The Clan got a massive advantage from the Sons, and we weren't able to translate that into an actual win. Our biggest issues were lack of tech and infrastructure to back up the Sons, and both Sareln and Bob putting up so good a fight that the Sons weren't terrifying anymore by the time we were done.

Totally - the trouble I think was that as soon as you got the sons, you had to use them and your whole game ended up revolving around them and not what the clan are actually very good at - massive numbers. I was surprised that you dind't adopt RoK as the warrens with Soldiers of Kilmorph trick is really really good.

Bob and Sareln both did really well to stall you for as long as possible and ultimately, that just helped Iskender, and to a lesser extent me, get ready to attack you come the end of our naps.

I think the turning point of the game after that was Esus picking that tiny little city of Bob's for its Holy City. If he'd managed to get Gibbon out in addition to the millions of skeletons, we'd probably be congratulating him instead of Iskender. In any case, Clan going to war without being able to win quickly was a mistake.

yes - Esus spawning there was pretty shit for Bob, didn't he have a much larger city in the east with no religion that it was much more likely to spawn in???

The only other serious strategic mistake (I made of lot of tactical errors v Iskender) was letting Square Leg buy peace. He got the amount perfect - enough to seem like a fortune, but not enough to actually get to a relevant tech.

Totally - you would have walked through me.

The only other thing I would have probably done if I were you - razed all of the cities you captured and then rebuilt using warrened settlers when your economy could have supported the cities.


I'll post how poorly I think my game was shortly! :neenernee

[Square Leg]

I didn't have currency on T197 as a financial leader. BIG

I chased goodies before setting up a strong enough economy.

I lacked any form of colateral - err don't golems throw fireballs or something?

There are more...

Some good parts:

Epic defence against the PZ rush! Enjoyed that no end.

The deal with the clan to get me the end of the game was quite nice although it really set me back.

Rip me apart guys - I need the feedback!

[Amelia]

You need sorcery i think to build the stuff to make golems throw fireballs. And elementalism as well.

[Mardoc]

I was surprised that you dind't adopt RoK as the warrens with Soldiers of Kilmorph trick is really really good.Totally - you would have walked through me.

The only other thing I would have probably done if I were you - razed all of the cities you captured and then rebuilt using warrened settlers when your economy could have supported the cities.

These were both a consequence of being at war for 100 turns - we only had 2 Warrens at the time the Balseraph war was done. Should have razed Sheaim cities, anyway, though.

I lacked any form of colateral - err don't golems throw fireballs or something?

This was the biggie, and what did me in as well. It was very nice to be able to Blind people, but that didn't mean much when Iskender just had to wait for it to wear off. I think you probably should have gone for sorcery instead of Gargoyles; Rathas + a million fireballs would have been much more effective than Rathas + gargoyles.

I thought the Golden Hammer rush was brilliant, also probably the only reason you survived vs Serdoa.

[Bobchillingworth]

yes - Esus spawning there was pretty shit for Bob, didn't he have a much larger city in the east with no religion that it was much more likely to spawn in???

YES.



Apologies for Iskender for the mean stuff I said about you in my thread I honestly thought Mardoc was about to smash you into a fine paste as soon as I left the game...


Speaking of whom, Mardoc has already been criticized enough for the fall of the Clan, and I don't really have anything to add but note that I think refusing to use the Sons in offensive (or apparently defensive :neenernee) actions was the biggest yet most honorable mistake of the game =) Nice guys finish, uh third, I guess.


Also I never properly voiced my gratitude to Serdoa, who fed me vital Death mana and conceded a nice river spot early on when I was terrified of his PZ. I had meant to repay you with pretty much anything you wanted outside core cities, but sadly I was never able to do more than cheese-gift you a couple workers. Sorry about that

[Serdoa]

Well, it was an interesting game. In review I still feel (SL probably can't hear it anymore) that I got the worst starting spot by far. But I also could have done more with it. I was (and still be) not familiar enough with the mod to look for potential strategies to get out of that (hell) hole and instead made the only thing I could think about... going to war. What worked out pretty poorly, partly for the great defense SL put up, partly because I neither had production nor commerce. The only reason I even could attack with PZ was that I actually got a GM and used the gold from his mission to upgrade warriors to PZs.

Anyway, congrats to Iskender. Not only for winning but showing what the Sidar can do. I think that is something what really wasn't shown till now and I guess we all underestimated their military capabilities (btw: thats why I think they are OP in EitB). Also great game SL, not only surviving a PZ-rush but also finishing second with one of the worst civs I can think of is certainly a feat

And thanks all of you for playing. It was fun and certainly for a big part because of all of you.

[Mardoc]

Speaking of whom, Mardoc has already been criticized enough for the fall of the Clan, and I don't really have anything to add but note that I think refusing to use the Sons in offensive (or apparently defensive ) actions was the biggest yet most honorable mistake of the game Nice guys finish, uh third, I guess.

I think making that deal may have been a horrible mistake, but sticking to it wasn't. There's more to life than winning.

In review I still feel (SL probably can't hear it anymore) that I got the worst starting spot by far. But I also could have done more with it.

Yes, on both fronts. I think you'd have done better to bully more, but not actually build a PZ rush force. You might have been able to get good land deals in exchange for NAP's. It probably still wouldn't have been enough, but you'd have done a bit better anyway.

[Sareln]

Umm, let's see here. I think I expanded too slowly, was choked by jungle in the only direction I could go with reasonable food in it, it seemed at the time. I'd have to look at the map again to be sure.

Unpromoted warriors can take down a highly promoted unit, but it requires a bit of luck and a lot of warriors.

I feel if the clan had tried to choke with any fewer units (or fewer promos on the wolf rider) I could've broken it earlier, though dying to the sons when they were as close as they were meant I was going to be dead regardless of play at that point