I think we should try to work closely with Trolls and we should tell them we want this. I dislike them too but we should try to get a settling agreement with them. Why? Well from what we've seen, the land between us is not as good as other land. We (and probably they) would ideally prefer to defer settling it.
As for the gold, I will point out it's more useful to them than to us since we have financial cottages to produce loads of commerce. Additionally, we will presumably already have the other gold for the happiness. Therefore I think it's in our mutual interest to agree to a border where they can claim the gold at their leisure and we can claim other things at our leisure.
Btw, as Kyan has often said, catching people on chat is the best way to be friends with someone. Let's try to do that. Perhaps we should ask if there's someone on their team we can chat with.
I agree as well. Do one of you more experienced guys want to handle this directly, or do you want to continue handling the diplo the way we have been, with me checking back before each message (or if on chat, getting a definite list ahead of time of what I can and cannot give up)?
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Crap, lost my message. Anyways, really agree with Seven on all counts. Especially the gold - it's a great chip for us to aid in relations. On this part:
SevenSpirits Wrote:Btw, as Kyan has often said, catching people on chat is the best way to be friends with someone. Let's try to do that. Perhaps we should ask if there's someone on their team we can chat with.
100% true, it's so much harder to reject/stab/scheme against somebody you've gotten to know. Even idle chats are useful in that regard. Problem is, I don't think chatting with the team accounts is likely to happen as us and other teams don't appear to be logged into it all day like many of us are with our individual accounts. The main issue is I don't even really know who their main diplomats are. Probably should try to figure out who that is, and some of us can add them all on chat. Would be easy to have an impromptu group chat sometime too that way.
Merovech Wrote:I agree as well. Do one of you more experienced guys want to handle this directly, or do you want to continue handling the diplo the way we have been, with me checking back before each message (or if on chat, getting a definite list ahead of time of what I can and cannot give up)?
I think if we're on the same page you should have a pretty good idea of what's saying too much and what isn't. Do you have a gmail account you use for chat?
Menagerie has provided one useful piece of info: their other neighbor appears to be TEAM. That should make Troll's far side neighbor the Pirates.
On settling agreements, I would not want to promise to not settle the eastern gold before we know whether we will get the northern gold. Or would we be willing to give up both if Menagerie beats us to the northern gold?
haphazard1 Wrote:On settling agreements, I would not want to promise to not settle the eastern gold before we know whether we will get the northern gold. Or would we be willing to give up both if Menagerie beats us to the northern gold?
Not suggesting ceding the gold just yet, but rather as a step #2 after we (ideally) get them to agree to settle elsewhere first. It's not even a guaranteed thing - more just a real nice option we have in befriending them. But yes, lock down Menagerie front gold and then go from there - agreed.
I had a gmail account, but I forgot it I'll make a new one.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
scooter, have you written something up yet? If not, I can do so now.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Sorry Merovech, I got sick yesterday and was sufficiently drugged that I figured it wasn't such a bright idea to write some sort of diplo message for us .
Go ahead and draft something up, I'm trying to get a few other things done right now.
I'll make a new one.