I am once again asking for the quote of the month to be changed as it is now a new month - Mjmd
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Sandbox Thread

#1
July 17th, 2012, 15:49
Kyan Offline
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Please update me!

I'll try to get the most recent link on the first post regularly.

I think this is all correct.

Link: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5826112/RBDemo1...C-4000.zip

Thanks to Scooter for assistance.
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#2
July 17th, 2012, 18:45
SevenSpirits Offline
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Thanks Kyan for the sandbox.

I tested a basic thing - if we go worker-warrior-setter, should we grow to 2 or to 3?

First observation: if we wish to complete the warrior which I believe we do, we need to spend 1 turn extra growing to size 2 (we work FP, PFH, deer, deer, pig, pig, pig for 22f and 15h).

Second observation: Settler at size 2 comes out t30 with 6h overflow. Settler at size 3 comes out t31 with 1h overflow and I believe 11b extra from having the extra citizen. So I would say that settler at size 3 beats settler at size 2.
Tides of War mod • Torusland map script • Mirrorland map script
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#3
July 18th, 2012, 13:08
Kyan Offline
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SevenSpirits Wrote:Thanks Kyan for the sandbox.

I tested a basic thing - if we go worker-warrior-setter, should we grow to 2 or to 3?

First observation: if we wish to complete the warrior which I believe we do, we need to spend 1 turn extra growing to size 2 (we work FP, PFH, deer, deer, pig, pig, pig for 22f and 15h).

Second observation: Settler at size 2 comes out t30 with 6h overflow. Settler at size 3 comes out t31 with 1h overflow and I believe 11b extra from having the extra citizen. So I would say that settler at size 3 beats settler at size 2.

I find this to normally be the case. A very standard opening, for me at least is:

worker -> warrior til size 3 -> settler -> warrior to size 4 -> whip settler -> overflow into worker.
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#4
July 18th, 2012, 15:17
haphazard1 Offline
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I usually follow a path similar to what Kyan described, although the settler whip obviously requires having BW at the appropriate time and decent food in the capital. I am wondering if after the first warrior it might be worth producing a second scout. Without barbs it is likely to survive much longer (unless one of our rivals decides to be aggressive) and would provide a lot more map info.
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#5
July 19th, 2012, 14:51
Fintourist Offline
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I was wondering if we should utilize the fact that we have a large number of players involved in the team and organize a "sandboxing competition".

Everyone interested should play our start until EOT50. Or some other turn number, which our micro experts can not anymore complety calculate/optimize, and the information yet to be revealed does not play too big of a role. 60? 65?

The idea would be not only to find a best opening, but also to see how would e.g. military emphasizing starts, complete farmers gambit or e.g. "fastest possible Oracle" starts would look like.

I believe the true value of this would be to recognize possible trade-offs and to be able to make better decisions if something unexpected happens and we for some reason have to give up our builderish plans due to our opponents.

A cookie for the one posting the most interesting/eye-opening start. Thoughts? Boring? Too much work? No real value?
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#6
July 19th, 2012, 16:26
Kyan Offline
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Main obvious problem with this is that the sandbox doesn't support it. Apart from the land we've explored, there's not much out there. Plus the benefits lessen. We are better off making the best plan we can now and adapting to change when it happens.

We have enough skilled folk to be able to change plans on a whim.
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#7
July 21st, 2012, 11:28
Fintourist Offline
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So does this mean that we have already a clear plan until T50/60 and I should not bother trying and leave the thinking for more experienced members?
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#8
July 21st, 2012, 11:30
Merovech Offline
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Fintourist Wrote:So does this mean that we have already a clear plan until T50/60 and I should not bother trying and leave the thinking for more experienced members?

Maybe and no, your thinking is appreciated and wanted.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#9
July 23rd, 2012, 18:23
Kyan Offline
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Fintourist Wrote:So does this mean that we have already a clear plan until T50/60 and I should not bother trying and leave the thinking for more experienced members?

I apologise if I gave you that impression. Knock yourself out and have fun. You asked for opinions and I was merely stating mine. However, i'm a grumpy sod so feel free to ignore me smile
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