(October 24th, 2014, 10:30)Elum Wrote: So it begins...
OH yeah.
Do you like reporting? I like chating about games so my gtalk is rbmackoti just ad me and we can discuss about tthe mod which we use or about tha game, or about chelsea winning premier league.
Yeah sound good, I'm going to try my hand at reporting too. Thanks for the help, I hope I'm a worthy student.
To kick things off these are the traits that sound interesting to me.
Spiritual, Imperial, Expansive, Charismatic.
I've got it into my head that imperial - charismatic would be a great early starter, extra happy could help mitigate nerfed whips for multiple 1 pop whips into cheap settlers, while low food cities can grow tall and work mines earlier and without diverting resources to chase happy. The idea being you could launch a pre-catapult offensive when paired with Mongolia or Sumeria? There also seems to synergy with +100% great generals and -25% exp needed for promotions.
I suppose my thinking is nerfed slavery is a buff for charismatic à la more mines earlier?
More on these later, I'm cooking a big roast dinner so I'm a bit busy!
(October 26th, 2014, 08:15)Elum Wrote: Yeah sound good, I'm going to try my hand at reporting too. Thanks for the help, I hope I'm a worthy student.
To kick things off these are the traits that sound interesting to me.
Spiritual, Imperial, Expansive, Charismatic.
I've got it into my head that imperial - charismatic would be a great early starter, extra happy could help mitigate nerfed whips for multiple 1 pop whips into cheap settlers, while low food cities can grow tall and work mines earlier and without diverting resources to chase happy. The idea being you could launch a pre-catapult offensive when paired with Mongolia or Sumeria? There also seems to synergy with +100% great generals and -25% exp needed for promotions.
I suppose my thinking is nerfed slavery is a buff for charismatic à la more mines earlier?
More on these later, I'm cooking a big roast dinner so I'm a bit busy!
Oh and mackoti when is our pyramids eta again?
Depends how our start looks,is better to decide what traits you want.Another thing to consider if you wanna work for a win or just to have fun.Becasue if you wanna win you need to consider having a strong economical trait.And none above is.I see them as suposrt traits. I have my own teory about civ, and consider a good leader have at least one good economycal trait: org(clearly the best in rb mod) , fin and Ind( which is a litle weaker then those before but still worth to choose), the others traits are for me just the helpel and in functin of the helper i choose my strategy.
If you pick just 2 helpers you'l regret strong lately when your power of developing is serious reduced.
I was hoping that krill will make creativ a economycal trait.
Played: Pitboss 18 - Kublai Khan of Germany Somalia | Pitboss 11 - De Gaulle of Byzantium | Pitboss 8 - Churchill of Portugal | PB7 - Mao of Native America | PBEM29 Greens - Mao of Babylon
Played: Pitboss 18 - Kublai Khan of Germany Somalia | Pitboss 11 - De Gaulle of Byzantium | Pitboss 8 - Churchill of Portugal | PB7 - Mao of Native America | PBEM29 Greens - Mao of Babylon
I bet you regret now having me like a team mate, looks like my luck with starting position is going towards you, lots of plains and we even have an ocean tile at capitol.Perhaps we should wander a litle with the setler for grrener start as you good say in title.If we go withis is one exp looks like a must.
(October 28th, 2014, 13:35)mackoti Wrote: I bet you regret now having me like a team mate, looks like my luck with starting position is going towards you, lots of plains and we even have an ocean tile at capitol.Perhaps we should wander a litle with the setler for grrener start as you good say in title.If we go withis is one exp looks like a must.
Really it's my fault for making that the title! Yeah cows are not much in the way of food. I think EXP sounds like a good idea, if I do move the settler it may help me keep up.
As for leaders what do you think of Mehmed? I was considering Hannibal too but I'm not sure now...
I've counted the tiles in the BFC and am trying to do some sleuthing. From Seven's description of the map generator's start balancing I think I may have either a start similar in quality to the others, copper, a greater distance to my nearest opponents to compensate land quality or a very dire need to expand. Then again the oasis and 3 hammer tiles (if they were not added post script) count against me. Current plan is to move the settler if an opportunity presents itself from the scout move, thinking imperial and skipping fishing super early at least, and lots of chopping.
BFC tiles
Riverside cows
Coastal fish
8 forests
1 plains hill forest
1 oasis
3 riverside grassland
2 riverside plains
1 lake
2 grassland
1 plains
some coast and an ocean
Seven on torusland (from the tech thread)
(May 16th, 2013, 02:01)SevenSpirits Wrote: Well it's modified from the Mirrorland script, so a lot of the description of that applies. But instead of generating a chunk of land that gets tiled and offset 5 or however many times and has mind-bending wrapping properties, it just makes one big one that wraps in the simple and obvious way. So that part is simpler (but a bit more complicated than it needs to be since the starting point was the aforementioned Mirrorland).
The one bit that's more complicated is choosing start locations. It's complex enough that I don't remember exactly how it works, but at least some of the complexity isn't used to any effect. So I'm not exactly proud of this but I will explain it anyway, since it's interesting to see how different people approach this. I started off by tracking food/commerce/production "values" that I assigned each tile of the map based on terrain, as well as a value I called "Early", which is heavily influenced by the presence of forests and jungles, and generally has a steeper value curve in that it doesn't care about flatland nonriver plains (which won't be worked early game), for example. Then, I evaluate each eligible tile as a possible city spot by picking out the 8 highest value tiles in its BFC and summing the different types of value over all of them, then just doing a linear combination of those values. And of course it adds points for a plains hill plant and stuff like that. When I say "linear combination", what I'm saying is that the separate calculation of all the different kinds of yields was unnecessary - I could have just given a single value for each tile. I was initially planning to do more with it, because e.g. the first X food is more important than later food, and the same with production and commerce. But it turned out that it was important to keep the scores quantitative and not just ordinal so I scrapped the fancier ideas.
The reason I needed the city values to be appropriately different by the amount their quality varied, and it wasn't good enough to just have better ones have higher values, was that I needed distance to other players to be an important factor. So, after every tile's capital score has been calculated, I place every player on a random legal tile. Then I loop through the players in a random order and compare their current spot to every spot in it's BFC, as well as 2 random spots anywhere on the map. The formula for score that I compare is: divide the precomputed city score by the sum of the reciprocals of the cubes of the distances to each other player. E.g. if my start is 8 tiles away from one player and 20 from the other two, then my score is divided by ( 1 / 20^3 + 1 / 20^3 + 1 / 8^3). You can see that the most significant fact in that equation is my low distance of 8 to another player - it's really reducing this position's score by a lot, because 1/8^3 is a lot bigger than 1/20^3. I previously wasn't cubing it, but that made it care too much about tile quality and not enough about distance. I jumped directly to cubing without trying squaring, and it worked to my satisfaction, so that's where I left it.
As I was describing, I am in the middle of seeing for every city in a random order if there's a better spot I can move it to. If I find one, I move it before continuing with the next city.
I do the checking and moving for a thousand iterations, which is probably overkill, but I don't know because it's the only number I tried. It ends up with players pretty well spread out, but still with fairly good capitals. Keep in mind that I don't add rivers to anyone's capital, so if there's a river there (which is usually the case) it's because the placement algorithm managed to make it happen.
This system would not work without modification on a map that's not a torus. It implicitly relies on there being opponents in all directions, and no edges of the map. If I put it to work on a map with edges, it would put everyone near the edge, so they can be far away from the other players, which is silly.
So I went with IMP/IND. I don't have much experience in these things but the psychological factor in IND is interesting. I wonder how much value you get by picking it reasonably early in the snake? It might dissuade other from picking it as they know they would have competition, on the other hand there is nothing stopping them.
I did have a moment of regret for not going EXP/IND and Khmer. But I suspect that was a good thing, it would have been a distraction from the basics. If I had though I would have tried to oracle maths and grabbed early currency and the hanging gardens.
It ends up with players pretty well spread out, but still with fairly good capitals. Keep in mind that I don't add rivers to anyone's capital, so if there's a river there (which is usually the case) it's because the placement algorithm managed to make it happen.