EitB v12 Wishlist/Progress

[Qgqqqqq]

Go nuts.

I'll writeup a bunch of proposals in the following posts, and keep this one for stuff that's been determined/is being implemented.

Progress Report:

Key:
Done and untested: Blue
Done and Tested: Green

Implemented:
Naval units gain +50% vs. Disciple units (Mod Notes: hard-coded in.)
Conquest Civic: Moves back to Warfare (from Education).
Military Strategy: Moves back to Military State (from Warfare).
Decius: Decius gains the Tolerant trait.
Summer Palace: Pedia Background and Strategy Entries updated/filled in.
Winter Palace: Pedia Background and Strategy Entries updated/filled in.

[Bobchillingworth]

So many versions!



Is there anything that really needs to be changed atm? Perhaps allow one of the v11.1 games to progress further to see what, if anything, ought to be adjusted. I've already got three installations of the modmod (each needed for a different PBEM), I'd rather not have to deal with a fourth.

[Qgqqqqq]

Lairs are probably the most contentious issue in the mod. But we've gotta do SOMETHING about them, right?

Some people like the chaotic results, some do not. Perhaps most importantly, however, lairs are in fact an intrinsic part of the game, and not meant to be something you leave on and off from game to game. They add flavor and quantity to the barb mixes faced, helping some civs and hurting others and just generally extending the period influence of barb influence in the game-play, and change the way xp is available in the game.

Therefore the results or the period in which they can be accessed need to be changed to sufficient degree to appease those who don't like them at all, whilst not pissing off those who enjoy the current implementation.

There're a couple of ways to do this.

Firstly, we can change the way/amount that they are accessed, particularly in the early game. EitB has already semi-done this with the three turns aspects, but it doesn't really change much.
Azoth proposed this upheaval as a solution:

LAIRS: A while back, I proposed that lair popping have a level requirement, possibly using the existing code for Brigit. It would look something like this:
* Any military unit can explore Graveyards and Shipwrecks. (No Workboats!)
* Only Level 2+ units can explore Barrows and Ruins. (2XP minimum)
* Only Level 3+ units can explore Goblin Forts and Dungeons. (4/5XP minimum)
* Only Level 4+ units can explore Unique Features. (8/10XP minimum)

Whilst the exact setups could be changed, I feel this is a very viable solution, and would satisfy most players.

Alternatively, or even alongside, I could look at altering the way the results are handled in some way to make them less gamebreaking. Whilst on the face of it, this seems very unappetizing (as it requires a lot of work, and some arbitrary decisions on my part) there are some possibilities that I'd consider - for example, in Magistermodmod a promotion "Lair Guardian" is introduced, and holds the chief BigBad's in place, effectively serving to protect the lair from future exploration for a spell, but reducing the possibility of a game-destroying spawn (the assistants can still attack).
On the negative side, that change makes lair-exploration much more of a one-right-choice, as the companions pose little existential threat.

[Qgqqqqq]

So many versions!



Is there anything that really needs to be changed atm? Perhaps allow one of the v11.1 games to progress further to see what, if anything, ought to be adjusted. I've already got three installations of the modmod (each needed for a different PBEM), I'd rather not have to deal with a fourth.

Basically, this is summer for me, so I have enough spare time to fit some coding in. I won't release it for a few months, and it'll likely be a while after that before its used (for example, I released v11 first in August, and the first game on it is just starting now), but it's best to get stuff ready in advance. After that I'll be quite busy, too.


Oh and there is quite a few things that could be implemented. All the .dll changes which I've been procrastinating about, something for lairs, and several civs need a boost (Elohim, Luchuirp etc.), as well as countless other little changes/reversions. Certainly the current version works and is very usable, but there's definitely room for improvement.

[Kragroth]

Some quick things mentioned already:

1. nerfing of Tsunami.

This is supposed to be a more balanced mod than FFH. Tsunami was complained about then

2. Option to Remove non-core events

Events are unbalanced. This mod is supposed to be about balance. There should be an option to remove most of these (you get the picture).

3. Option to limit City Trades / Traded cities don't keep civ specific buildings

It'd be nice to have one or both of the above options. It would prevent gentlemen's agreements in MP Games

4. Option to Modify Tower of DIvination for MP Games.

Maybe an XML change, whatever it takes be creative. Perhaps merely an option could keep MP competitive without a gentleman's agreement.

5. Generic Leader for all Civs:

Consider grabbing that part of the Code From Mimic's old MP Mod

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325419

[Qgqqqqq]

2 and 4 are being done. 3 I don't intend to do.

Why would I do 5? Part of the balance for civs lies in the traits vs. Civ - some civs are weak, but have some traits, and so on. I can't imagine ever wanting to allow someone to choose their own traits in a game like this.

Could you make the case for tsunami? It has already been nerfed in this modmod, and I'm reluctant to do so again.

[Kragroth]

3 is a logical progression of the no settlers option, it prevents warrens sending out firebows and other somesuch. The fact that you asked this to be unallowed by a gentleman's agreement is an indication of its need.

The civs aren't balanced even with the traits there. Good is favored in ai diplomacy better than evil. Despite the bonuses Valledia is still worse than Dain and so forth. People have and will request more leaders with differing traits. The coding from Mimic allows this without implementing a ton of leaders for every civ.

You'll notice that there is a game option unrestricted leaders. Well that is merely a slightly inferior option to being able to choose your traits and alignment directly. It'd be nice to choose m

Moreover, it seems that a lot of people here despite the balance like barbarians and events and lairs. Well I'm not sure balance wise, but funwise yes it's nice to be able to choose these things and helps more an an role playing level.

[Mardoc]

The fact that you asked this to be unallowed by a gentleman's agreement is an indication of its need.

Huh. It seems the opposite to me. It's not causing any problems now because it can be easily avoided; therefore it's not needed in code. Compare to a real no-events option: you can't really play without events unless it's coded in.

Good is favored in ai diplomacy better than evil. Despite the bonuses Valledia is still worse than Dain and so forth. People have and will request more leaders with differing traits.

While true, I fear this is beyond the scope of the mod. It's intended as a MP-balance mod, not FFH3. If you go to just 'things that people want', you'll never finish.

1. nerfing of Tsunami.

This is supposed to be a more balanced mod than FFH. Tsunami was complained about then

The absolute best way to convince Q of this, would be to show us. Join a game, use Tsunami to absolutely wreck someone.

In my experience, Tsunami tends to be not the right answer hardly ever. Most of the targets that you want to collateral are not coastal. And most of the time, there's really no difference between doing, say, 40% damage with Ring of Flames and 75% damage with Tsunami. The first strike is going to win either way, if the two armies are anything close to the same size and tech level. But if you have Ritualists, you can continue the fight past the coast, where a Cultist army will have to stop.

[Bobchillingworth]

RE: UB on city transfers, I believe most of UB disappear if you gift a city to someone. This prevents scenarios such as the Infernals gifting a city to someone, who then grows it to enormous size thanks to the Infernal Citizens improvement (or whatever it's called).

[Kragroth]

I'll have to test the Unique Building Transfers Directly. Add a couple to the list:

6. Multiple Production Mod Merge

This thread lists an important innovation that should have been used in civ4. Basically if you queue multiple items in production (military, buildings, etc.) and you have enough hammers to build the first one and the second one, both are built. This prevents an issue when certain cities get too big and the leftover Production is converted to gold instead of being used

7. Multiple Research Mod Merge

This Thread as well as hidden inside the pages of the previous thread makes an important update to Civ4 that should have been included by its creators. If you have leftover research after completing a tech and that leftover research is enough to complete a tech, you will also get that tech.

This avoids a problem in the late game where you go back and get earlier techs. You are forced to only get one tech per turn desipte potentially very high research.