[SPOILERS]PB34: Gawdzak and chumchu

[Gawdzak]

This will be our spoiler thread for PB34.

[Gawdzak]

First of all, I like snake picks. Despite the balance changes, I still think there's a significant disparity between the best traits and the worst traits, so it's important to put some thoughts into the picks.

The big thing in this version of the mod is that Creative is back to the +2 culture and no library bonus. This just makes the trait too boring and one-dimensional in my opinion and doesn't seem like it's a worthwhile pick.

Super Mercantilism is still a thing in this version.

Anyways, I've ask chumchu who's a new member here to join the team, so hopefully this thread be will updated more frequently.

[Gawdzak]

Pick Order:

1. Borsche (Eastern Brown Snake)
2. Gawdzawk & Chumchu (Belcher's Sea Snake)
3. GSorel/DMOC (Philippine Cobra)
4. Nicolea Carpathia (Tiger Snake)
5. Elkad (Inland Taipan)
6. DTG + picklepikki (Central Ranges Taipan)
7. OT4E (Rattlesnake)
8. wetbandit & ipecac (Death Adder)
9. StarDoor (Blue Krait)
10. dcodea (Black Mamba)
11. NylesStandish (Viper)
12. pindicator (African Puff Adder)

I'm pretty lucky on these snake picks:

PB20 : 3rd pick
PB21: 1st pick
PB22: Something like 7th pick but I got Julius/Zulu
PB24: 1st pick
PB34: 2nd pick

Maybe we can pick up Inca?

[greenline]

your start:



tiles in the fat cross of where the settler is now won't change. fog gazing is a highly reprehensible practice that is prone to backfiring

[Gawdzak]

Thanks, greenline.

Nice start here, should be a great cottage capital.

Need either Hunting or Agriculture. Fishing is bad here.

Go Agr/Hunt => Mining -> BW -> Wheel.

Inca and Zulu should go instantly.

[chumchu]

I'm super excited! though why did we sea snakes get an inland capital ?

I'd very much like to SiP with plains hill + 3 good resources and some forest for a really fast start. The only thing missing is a happy resource.

On the contrary I see the capital as mainly a production city with the cows and the 7 hills in the BFC but only 4 riverside tiles (and 4 flat grasslands) and no commerce resources. We have a great city for pumping military/settlers. With the nerf to slavery in the mod this might be really more useful. It would be nice to have imperialistic and all those hammers for a super fast rex. Expansive would be ok as well with an extra hammer from the start and forests to chop. The second trait would then be preferably be somewhat economy oriented (financial is still great). We could potentially use the improved windmills on the hills in a bureau cap but I'm leaning towards finding a better commerce site for it.

I'm with you on tech choices. I would say that we want a civ with two out of hunting/mining/agriculture to get to bronze and worker tech Asap which leaves a handful to chose from. Inca is not one of them and seems a bit over rated with the nerfs to quechas and terraces and culture available on barracks. Mysticism is very much a waste in this start I believe. They seem a bit boring as well.

Zulu is much more to my liking. Perfect starting techs. Pairs well with either aggressive or imperialistic which should be easily picked up on the way back together with financial or maybe spiritual. Ikhandas with lower maintenance and inbuilt culture and a certain "don't thread on me" - factor looks great. My first choice for this start.

Other civs to consider in order of preference (all with two out of hunting/mining/agriculture):

Russia: with philosophical their unique universities looks great and cossack may be critical as well. Looks like a beeline to military tradition (and hopefully Liberalism) that picks up super mercantilism and super universities on the way. I like this a lot as well.
China: would be quite good as well with machinery being a key tech in the mod (trebs + improved mills).
Germany: no early benefits but with assembly plants now availiable at steam power is huge if we get that far.
Ethiopia: the buffed drill promos makes Oromos even better easily beelined through guilds and you get trebs and knights on the way.
Persia: immortal may be useful and apothecary is on the improved lower tech path.
Khmer: only with expansive and quite marginal even then.

[Gawdzak]

re: picks

I don't think Inca is overrated at all, the culture on terrace is incredibly relevent. I don't think it's correct to say that it's weaker just because barracks gives culture, since you want a granary ASAP and barracks are pretty lackluster builds early on. The quechua is actually a very good unit, the ability to be able to build warriors even after you connect the metal is actually very useful for cheap MP happiness. I don't think I've had a game where I didn't wish I could have built more warriors. Not the best unique unit out there, but still better than a lot of other unique units.

Mysticism is kind of useless, but compared to Mining, it only sets us back a little in terms of research since Mining is pretty cheap. I would only consider Agr/Hunting as a significant improvement over Inca's Agr/Hunting.

There are several games that I remember where an Incan civ had very strong openings:

PB22: Dtay
PB25: Commodore
PB28: wetbandit

Anyways, we can consider picking leader first as well.

From my experiences, FIN and ORG gives a big boost to a civ's chances at winning. The ability to out tech your rivals is very valuable (and more efficient) in order to conquer them.

I like to have an early game trait to go along FIN or ORG in order to not to fall behind early game, which consists of IMP/EXP/PRO.

Which leaves a short list of

Julius(IMP/ORG)
Victoria (FIN/IMP)
Wang Kon (FIN/PRO)
Pacal (FIN/EXP)
Mehmed (EXP/ORG) (picked)

and a PRO/ORG leader doesn't exist in the game.

Since we are near the top of the snake pick, the chances of getting one of those leaders if we go Civ first is pretty slim.

My order of preferences:

1) Inca
2) Victoria
3) Wang Kon
4) Pacal
5) Zulu
6) Julius (only because I've played him in the past, he's objectively the best leader in my opinion)

There's definitely lots of civs to go for with this start, but Inca and Zulu are the only ones that I would consider picking before my listed leaders.

So yeah, let me know what you think chumchu.

[chumchu]

- My point is that there is a big difference between 1 and 2 culture per turn.
- MP warriors are significantly more efficient than MP archers, but that and barb defense is about what we get from Quechas. If you really want to you can build warriors in unconnected cities.
- Normal barracks are lackluster but aggressive Ikhandas are not.
- The setback from mysticism is roughly 5 turns later bronze working which could mean a significantly delayed first settler since we will get our city up to speed really quick.

If we pick leader first Julius would be my top pick =). My list is as follows:
Zulu
Julius
Victoria
Russia
Pacal
Inca (because they are used too often and not as suited for this start)

How about Victoria or Zulu as compromise?

I leave the final decision to you on all matters.

[chumchu]

Victoria of the Zulus would be historically fitting =)

[Gawdzak]

Well if you like Julius more than Victoria, then we can go with Julius.

I'm sure we can get a pretty decent civ on the way back on the snake pick, my thought is:

Julius + random civ > Zulu + random leader

If you don't have a problem with Julius, I think we should go with him.