March 18th, 2018, 02:02
(This post was last modified: March 26th, 2018, 23:15 by rho21.)
Posts: 1,267
Threads: 7
Joined: Apr 2006
Welcome one and all to my spoiler thread.
I should start with a discussion of the available civs. On the table we have France, Egypt, Aztec, Brazil, India, Kongo, Norway, Spain, America and Greece (the Pericles variant).
I'm pretty sure these are the worst 10 civs for multiplayer. Whose idea was this again? Oh right.
March 18th, 2018, 03:17
(This post was last modified: March 19th, 2018, 14:54 by rho21.)
Posts: 1,267
Threads: 7
Joined: Apr 2006
France
+20%  toward Medieval, Renaissance and Industrial wonders. Tourism from all wonders is doubled.
+1 level of diplomatic visibility with all civs.
Free spy (and spy capacity) with castles tech.
All spies start with a promotion.
Unique tile improvement: Chateau
Requires Humanism (early renaissance era civic)
Any terrain, but only next to rivers.
+2  , +1 appeal
+2 if next to a wonder
+1  if next to a luxury
Unique unit: Garde Impériale
Requires Military Science (early industrial era technology)
No upgrade in, upgrades out to Mechanised Infantry
Melee unit, 2 movement, strength 65
340 , 5 maintenance
+10 combat strength on home continent
Great general points for killing units. Not sure how many.
Rating: 0.5 stars
This is pure trash for an ancient era start. Nothing here has any effect before the medieval period, by which time the game will probably be decided. Even then none of it is worth much except perhaps the wonder-building boost. Or maybe the spy: no-one's really done much with them, but that's probably for good reason.
Egypt
+15% towards districts and wonders if next to a river. These can be placed on floodplains.
International trade routes provide +4
Incoming international trade routes provide +2  to the source and +2 to Egypt.
Unique tile improvement: Sphinx
Requires Craftsmanship (mid-ancient era civic)
+1  , +1 , +1 appeal.
+2 if next to a wonder.
+1 with Natural History
Any terrain, including floodplains.
Cannot be built next to another sphinx
Unique unit: Maryannu Chariot Archer
Requires Wheel (late ancient technology)
Replaces Heavy Chariot
No upgrade in, upgrades out to Crossbowman
Ranged unit, 2 movement (4 if starts in open terrain)
35 ranged strength (range 2), 25 melee strength
120 , 2 maintenance
Comparison: Heavy Chariot
No upgrade in, upgrades out to Knight
Melee unit, move 2 (3 if starts in open terrain), strength 28
65 1 maintenance
Comparison: Archer
Upgrades in from slinger, upgrades out to Crossbowman
Ranged unit, 2 movement
25 ranged strength (range 2), 15 melee strength
60 , 1 maintenance
Rating: 2 stars
The production boost for districts is probably the most valuable part of their kit, though the boost for wonders might also be valuable without China in the game. The value of this depends entirely on finding rivers, so drop a star on map scripts which produce few rivers.
The international trade route boost looks pretty good, especially with some tame city states.
The Sphinx looks like a reasonable way of getting some culture without having to rely on districts, though they're not worth working unless next to a wonder.
The Maryannu has advantages and disadvantages, but I think it's a net negative. It's nearly as powerful as a crossbow and moves quickly. It costs as much as two archers, and the maintenance is worse (can't be mitigated as effectively by conscription). It's far less effective for exploiting chop overflow than 2 archers (or 2 chariots). Perhaps most tellingly, it removes the upgrade path to knights which often arrive at just the right time for a lot of MP wars.
Posts: 1,267
Threads: 7
Joined: Apr 2006
Aztec
Builders may spend a charge to complete 20% of a district (like China's ability for wonders).
Unique luxuries from own territory provide an amenity to 2 extra cities.
Unique luxuries from own territory provide +1 combat strength when attacking.
Unique building: Tlachtli
Requires Games & Recreation (early classical era civic)
Replaces Arena (tier 1 entertainment complex building
+2 , +1 amenity
+1 great general point per turn
135 , 1 maintenance
Comparison: Arena
+1 amenity
150 , 1 maintenance
Unique unit: Eagle Warrior
Replaces warrior
No upgrade in, upgrades out to swordsman
Melee unit, 2 movement, 28 strength
65 , no maintenance
Chance to turn defeated units (not barbarians) into free builders [how much chance?]
Comparison: Warrior
No upgrade in, upgrades out to swordsman
Melee unit, 2 movement, 20 strength
40 , no maintenance
Rating 2.5 stars
The eagle warriors are costly and not particularly useful against other humans, but they do provide the extra strength required to go after a city state early on. Add in the free builders and you might be off to a really good early snowball.
Builders producing districts means there's no rush to place districts before the price goes up. It probably also means that chop overflow should be directed to other less efficient goals such as monuments and granaries (or even more builders). This really kicks in in the mid-game when builders are much cheaper than districts.
The bonus combat strength is a nice minor advantage, as is the amenity bonus. The Tlachtli seems pretty much irrelevant.
Brazil
Rainforest tiles provide a +1 adjacency bonus for many science, commerce, faith and culture districts, plus neighbourhoods.
20% refund whenever you get a great person.
Unique district: Street Carnival
Requires Games & Recreation (early classical era civic)
Replaces entertainment complex
Carnival project: +1 amenity when active and great person points for engineer, merchant, artist, writer musician when finished.
+2 amenities
27 base cost, 1 maintenance
Comparison: Entertainment Complex
No district project
+1 amenity
54 base cost, 1 maintenance
Unique unit: Minas Geraes
Requires Nationalism (early industrial era civic)
Replaces battleship
Upgrades in from frigate, upgrades out to missile cruiser
Naval ranged unit, 5 movement
80 ranged strength, 3 range, 70 melee strength, 75 AA strength
430 , 6 maintenance
Comparison: Battleship
Requires steel (early modern era technology)
Requires coal resource
Upgrades in from frigate, upgrades out to missile cruiser
Naval ranged unit, 5 movement
70 ranged strength (range 3), 60 melee strength, 70 AA strength
430 , 6 maintenance
Rating: 1 star
The refund from great people is probably the biggest bonus here.
The rainforest adjacency bonus is pleasant, but requires you to keep the rainforests around. They're probably better used for chopping most of the time. Very dependent on terrain, naturally, and Brazil's natural tendency to start in the rainforest belt is removed for authored maps.
Unique districts are generally powerful, but you don't want many entertainment complexes, which rather cancels that out.
The Minas Geraes is really powerful, but very unlikely to be relevant from an ancient era start on a non-water map.
March 18th, 2018, 09:30
(This post was last modified: March 18th, 2018, 09:31 by rho21.)
Posts: 1,267
Threads: 7
Joined: Apr 2006
India
All religions in a city provide their follower beliefs.
+5 for each known civilization (including India) that has founded a religion and is not at war.
Double war weariness for opponents.
Unique tile improvement: Stepwell
Requires Irrigation (mid-ancient era technology)
Flatland only, and not adjacent to another stepwell
+1 , +1 housing
+1 if adjacent to a holy site
+1 if adjacent to a farm
+1 with Feudalism
+1 with Professional Sports
Unique unit: Varu
Requires Horseback Riding (early classical era technology)
No upgrade in, upgrades out to Tank
-5 strength for all adjacent enemy units
Heavy cavalry, 2 movement, 40 strength
120 , 3 maintenance
Comparison: Horseman
No upgrade in, upgrades out to Cavalry
Light cavalry, 4 movement, 36 strength
80 , 2 maintenance
Comparison: Knight
Upgrades in from Heavy Chariot, upgrades out to Tank
Heavy cavalry, 4 movement, 48 strength
180 , 3 maintenance
Rating: 1.5 stars
The Varu is just about the only good thing about India. They have a very reasonable cost (reduced by the Manoeuvre card) and, counting their -5 strength effect, are pretty similar in combat strength to a knight. The drop in speed makes them much worse than knights, but on the plus side they appear much earlier in the game. The strength effect also stacks, so some careful manoeuvring can produce excellent effects. It's worth considering a timing attack based on a wave of Varu.
The stepwell isn't likely to create a strong enough tile to be worth actually working. The housing boost might be worthwhile, but I can't imagine having enough spare builder labour to make these worth much.
The religion and war weariness boosts I can't see doing very much, particularly in a small field of humans.
Kongo
+2 , +2 , +4 from each relic, artifact and sculpture
Palace has room for 5 great works
+50% great writer, artist, musician and merchant points
May not build holy sites or gain great prophets
Gains all beliefs of the majority religion
Receives an apostle for each M'banza or theatre square finished in a city with a majority religion
Unique district: M'banza
Requires Guilds (late medieval civic)
Replaces Neighbourhood
Only in rainforests and woods
+2
+4
+5 :housing:
27 base cost
Comparison: Neighbourhood
Requires Urbanization (late industrial civic)
No placement restrictions
+2->+6 housing, dependent on tile appeal
54 base cost
Unique unit: Ngao Mbeba
Requires Iron Working (early classical technology)
Replaces Swordsman
Upgrade in from Warrior, upgrade out to Musketman
+10 strength when defending against ranged attacks
Woods and rainforests cost no extra movement and do not obscure sight
Melee unit, 2 movement, 35 strength
110 , 2 maintenance
Comparison: Swordsman
Requires iron resource
Upgrade in from Warrior, upgrade out to Musketman
Melee unit, 2 movement, 36 strength
90 , 2 maintenance
Rating: 1 star
The M'banza is the good bit here. Once you hit guilds, you will never lack for housing again.
The Ngao Mbeba is only a minor upgrade from regular swords, at a small increase in cost.
The great person point boost might provide a little value.
With goody huts off, relics are tough to find, artifacts are very late game and sculpture is dependent on the great people who appear, and anyway artists are quite late in the game. Very little benefit to be had from the boost to those, nor from the religious powers, in a MP game.
Posts: 1,267
Threads: 7
Joined: Apr 2006
Norway
Enter ocean tiles at Shipbuilding (late classical) rather than Cartography (early Renaissance)
No additional movement costs to embark and disembark
Naval melee units can heal in neutral territory
All naval melee units can perform coastal raiding
+50% towards all naval melee units
Unique building: Stave Church
Requires Theology (late classical era civic)
Replaces temple
Holy site gets an additional adjacency bonus from woods
+1 per coastal resource tile in this city
+4
+1 great prophet point per turn
120 , 2 maintenance
Comparison: Temple
+4
+1 great prophet point per turn
120 , 2 maintenance
Unique unit: Viking Longship
Requires Sailing (mid-ancient era technology)
Replaces Galley
No upgrades in, upgrades out to Caravel
Naval melee unit, 3 movement (4 in coastal waters), 30 strength
65 , 1 maintenance
Comparison: Galley
No upgrades in, upgrades out to Caravel
Naval melee unit, 3 movement, 25 strength
65 , 1 maintenance
Unique unit: Berserker
Requires Military Tactics (early medieval era technology)
No upgrades in, upgrades out to musketman
+7 strength when attacking, -7 strength when defending
Melee unit, 2 movement (4 if in enemy territory), 40 strength
180 , 3 maintenance
Rating: 0.5 stars
The only real advantage Norway have on a non-water heavy map is the bonus production to naval melee units. This can be used early on for some really superpowered chops.
The berserker looks OK, but it's difficult to produce in numbers due to lack of a production card, and then it becomes obsolete pretty quickly.
Overall good on naval maps, not worth much elsewhere.
Spain
May form fleets and armadas at Mercantilism (late Renaissance) (instead of Nationalism (fleets, early Industrial) and Mobilization (armadas, early Modern))
Trade routes to other continents receive bonus gold if to other civs, bonus food and production if to your own
Inquisitors have an extra charge
Combat units get +4 strength against players following other religions
Unique tile improvement: Mission
Requires Exploration (early Renaissance era civic)
+2
+2 if not on home continent
+2  if next to a campus
+2 with Cultural Heritage
Unique unit: Conquistador
Requires Gunpowder (early Renaissance era technology)
Replaces Musket
Upgrades in from Swordsman, upgrades out to Infantry
+10 combat strength if sharing a tile with a religious unit
On city capture, if a Conquistador is within 1 tile, the city adopts your religion
Melee unit, 2 movement, 55 strength
250 , 4 maintenance
Comparison: Musketman
Requires Niter resource
Melee unit, 2 movement, 55 strength
240 , 4 maintenance
Rating: 0.5 stars
Other than the trade route bonuses, which are nice if the geography is friendly, everything good about Spain needs a religion to function, ideally one with a fair bit of investment. Even then, there's not much to write home about. The combat strength bonus is probably the best bit.
Posts: 4,098
Threads: 20
Joined: Aug 2017
Good luck! Know that I am reading along!
March 18th, 2018, 16:56
(This post was last modified: March 18th, 2018, 17:25 by rho21.)
Posts: 1,267
Threads: 7
Joined: Apr 2006
America
Government legacy bonuses take half as long to earn
+5 combat strength on home continent
+1 appeal to all tiles in a city with a national park
Unique building: Film Studio
Requires Radio (late modern era technology)
Replaces Broadcast Centre
+100% tourism from this city
Otherwise identical to Broadcast Centre
Unique unit: Rough Rider
Requires Rifling (late industrial era technology)
No upgrades in, upgrades out to Modern Armour
Earns culture from kills on home continent
+10 combat strength on hills
Heavy cavalry unit, 5 movement, 67 strength
385 , 2 maintenance
Comparison: Cavalry
Requires Military Science (early industrial era technology)
Requires Horse resource
Upgrades in from Horseman, upgrades out to Helicopter.
Light cavalry unit, 5 movement, 62 strength
330 , 5 maintenance
Unique unit: P-51 Mustang
Requires Advanced Flight (early atomic era technology)
Replaces Fighter
Upgrades in from Biplane, upgrades out to Jet Fighter
+50% experience
Air Fighter unit, 85 ranged strength (range 4), 85 melee strength
520 , 7 maintenance
Comparison: Fighter
Requires Aluminium resource
Upgrades in from Biplane, upgrades out to Jet Fighter
Air Fighter unit, 80 ranged strength (range 4), 80 melee strength
520 , 7 maintenance
Rating: 1 star
The combat strength bonus is the good thing here, and might serve as a deterrent for the first little while, or as an advantage for an early attack should geography permit.
Everything else shows up far too late in the game to be of any value.
Greece (Pericles)
+1 wildcard slot in any government
+5% per city state suzerained
Unique district: Acropolis
Requires Drama & Poetry (early classical era civic)
Replaces Theatre Square
Can only be built on hills
+1 envoy when completed
+1 for each adjacent wonder and district
+1 more for an adjacent city centre (which also counts as a district)
+1 great writer, artist and musician point per turn
27 base cost, 1 maintenance
Comparison: Theatre Square
No location requirements
+1 for each adjacent wonder
+1 for each 2 adjacent districts
+1 great writer, artist and musician point per turn
54 base cost, 1 maintenance
Unique unit: Hoplite
Requires Bronze Working (late ancient era technology)
Replaces Spearman
No upgrades in, upgrades out to Pikeman
+10 strength if adjacent to another Hoplite
Anti-cavalry unit, 2 movement, 25 strength
65 , 1 maintenance
Comparison: Spearman
Identical except for the strength bonus
Rating: 3 stars
The wildcard slot is a huge bonus (by the low standards of these civilizations), allowing you a good shot at any early great person you fancy, plus more flexibility throughout the game.
Unique districts are generally strong. Cultural districts aren't the most urgent because they don't produce particularly useful great people, but they are still worth having when cheap, if only to reach new civics and governments quickly.
The Hoplite is pretty powerful in pairs early in the game, and affordable now that it is boosted by the Agoge card. Sadly anti-cavalry units aren't great later on in the game, so you probably only want a few.
Posts: 1,267
Threads: 7
Joined: Apr 2006
So, these ratings give me Greece, Aztec and Egypt as the strongest options, followed by India ahead of America, Brazil and Kongo.
So, which would I most fancy playing?
I think Aztec has the most interesting gameplay options: you can aim to produce vast numbers of builders (by whatever means) and turn them into districts, with chops going to military and to other infrastructure.
Greece meanwhile seems particularly flexible, able to race ahead in culture, pick up a few other great people too, and still defend itself fine early on.
I'll definitely have these two at the top of my list, one way around or the other.
I'm considering revising my rating of Egypt down a bit: the wonder and district bonuses look nice, but ideally most of their production would be coming from chops anyway. Still, I think they're a valid third choice.
India seem most interesting for fourth spot.
Anyway, I'll wait to see what we know about the map before making a final decision.
Posts: 1,267
Threads: 7
Joined: Apr 2006
(March 18th, 2018, 15:06)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Good luck! Know that I am reading along!
Good to have you here. I hope it proves entertaining for everyone watching.
I promise more pictures once we get to the game itself. 
Posts: 171
Threads: 5
Joined: Apr 2004
I'm crawling out of a very long hibernation here to dedlurk, for the simple reason that rho21 is a real-life friend of mine.
For the edification of others - I played a few epics here in Civ 3 and Civ 4 many a moon ago, but haven't really done any posting since then - certainly so long ago that no-one will remember me! I've followed the odd PBEM or other game report thread since, though. Anyway, I've played Civ 6 pretty much only casually, but I do have to say that the PBEM reports make it look like it's a pretty good multiplayer game. I look forward to being a little more involved in this one, but I'm certainly going to providing a seasoned veteran opinion or anything like that!
As to your Civ reviews, they seemed pretty well thought-out. I certainly agree with the total dismissals of most. For your fourth pick I agree with introducing India, which I think are a little better than you gave them credit - not even necessarily fourth. The Varu certainly is a strong unit as you mentioned, with only the slow movement stopping them from being really great I think - they'd fight almost on parity with Knights otherwise, despite being 3/4 the cost and an earlier unit. But also I think the Stepwell and the civ abilities do a bit more than you suggested. A stepwell placed next to a farm is another farm with an extra faith, which while not common certainly does come up. The faith boost will certainly come up - if you found a religion easily because no-one else cares that's probably just fine for you, and if it's hard then you get the big faith boost from other people having done so. Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea how war weariness works in Civ 4, so I don't know whether that one's relevant at all. But mostly, of course, you need the a fourth choice that isn't as blank as most of the others are.
|
