[Spoilers] Shallow Thought and Hitru's series of (unfortunate?) events

[shallow_thought]

Look away, look away,
Look away, look away,
This thread will wreck your evening , your home-life, and your day,
Every single update contains nothing but dismay,
So, look away,
Look away, look away.


For players, the prohibition above is absolute.

For lurkers, it is merely advisory. However, those of a sensitive disposition, who prefer their micro elegant, their mechanics sound and their strategy clear, would do well to heed it.

[shallow_thought]

Important stuff goes here.

Password:

events

Days ST may have trouble playing:
Fri 3 Aug
Fri 10 Aug/ Sat 11 Aug
TBC - Thu 4 Oct / Sat 13 Oct (days in between should be OK)

[shallow_thought]

Well, this is actually starting . Welcome to any lurkers who made it past the first post. Hitru has promised to drop by occasionally, so it shouldn't be a complete wasteland.

Despite the thread theme, I will be taking this seriously. I'm no great player, and am old enough that supressing my bad habits and learning better ones is hard work, but if there was ever a field that was going to give me a chance to survive long enough to learn something this is it, so I've grabbed the chance to play. I guess I should start to post my thoughts about picks - this is at least one part of the game where I have some experience.

But first, my cats need feeding .

[Commodore]

Here's your start. Don't trust the fog.
   

[shallow_thought]

Thanks Commodore!

I've not had time to analyse this in detail yet, but it looks like it's been balanced to avoid Agriculture being the one true tech to start. Interesting.

Anyway, at 5 on the list, I'll be able to get pretty close to picking a civ-leader combo outright from what's left.

I also note that while SIP is an obvious possiblility, 2W might also work, and may need scouting and analysing early.

[DaveV]

+5 internet points for the Series of Unfortunate Events reference

[Hitru]

ST, how much do you want me to be involved as a dedlurker? I promise that I can also just answer questions and otherwise be silent even if it does not look that way in our pb38 chat.

Basically this is your game and I will be involved only as much as you want.

[shallow_thought]

+5 internet points for the Series of Unfortunate Events reference  

Thanks: it's a terrible naming theme, as it covers less than half the alphabet and several of the book titles are too long, but I'm going with it anyway - I plan to just fill in the gaps with titles that sound suitable ("Incurable Ill" for example). So, suggestions welcome for D, F, J, K, L, N, O, Q, U, X, Y and Z. Particularly O, Q, and Y, for which I've got nothing so far.

Anyway, pick thoughts .

It seems the consensus is that in RtR one should look at civs first rather than leaders; in particular, getting initial techs that don't suit your start can be painful. I feel the usual suspects are Agri, Mining, Hunting, Wheel in roughly that order, with Fishing situational and Mysticism a distant last. I obviously need to get a sandbox up and running, but I don't think this start changes that. Yes, there'll be an early Fishing, but probably not before the other two food techs. Before Pottery, before AH? Maybe. So should at least consider Fishing as an alternative to Wheel.

Agri, Min: China, Korea,
Agri, Hunt: Persia, Zulu,
Hunt, Min: Ethiopa, Germany, Khmer, Russia,

Agri, Wheel: Babylon, Egypt, France, Ottomans, Sumeria,
Hunt, Wheel: Mongolia,
Min, Wheel: Mali,

Agri, Fish: America, Dutch (hmm - I wonder if everyone has a coastal cap ?), Native Americans,
Hunt, Fish: Vikings, Greece,
Min, Fish: Carthage, England, Portugal, Rome,

Well, with only six players, I've got choice within the "top" three lines, even more so if I include the Agri+ lines. have to say that I don't really fancy the UU/UB of Germany, Russia or Khmer (maybe the Baray is worth it at ~50t payback time, but on a nice, lush RB map?). The other "top" five are all pretty solid though, with at least one good item out of their UU/UB.

As for traits, I'm looking for nice, simple, low-skill cap ones. So probably not SPI and definitely not PHI. And I've never understood CHA (although I do note the lack of early happy resources in the starting screenshot). So, dividing what's left into "expansion", "economic" and "combat" traits, and roughly ranking them:

Expansion: PRO, IMP, EXP, CRE, AGG (barracks)
Economic: ORG, FIN, AGG (maintenance)
Combat: AGG, PRO

I guess I would like a decent expansion trait combined with something economic to help me avoid crashing my economy too badly. It's certainly worth bearing in mind that AGG appears in all three groups...

PRO, ORG - doesn't exist!
IMP, ORG - Julius
EXP, ORG - Mehmed
CRE, ORG - Zara
PRO, AGG - Toku
IMP, AGG - Genghis
EXP, AGG - Shaka
CRE, AGG - Don't care, don't want. Too much anti-synergy.
PRO, FIN - Wang Kon

Probably not in that order; there are more than six there. Could also consider just going with the fast start:

PRO, IMP: Charlie
PRO, EXP: Mao
PRO, CRE: Gilgamesh

And I guess Hammurabi gets a look in with AGG/ORG as well. Felt slow in a trial SP game, though.

I may be undervaluing CRE - it's not that badly nerfed in RtR, and if there was ever a trait that functioned well at a low skill-cap, it's that one. The coastal start slightly pushes FIN, but probably not enough to rescue it. Oh, and I've ignored IND as well, haven't I? I'll probably be building enough unjustified infrastructure without getting caught up in wonders.

At a guess, I'm looking at getting one of Persia or Ethiopia. I certainly expect China and the Zulu to be gone. And I kind-of-fancy Toku/Genghis/Shaka - I like the utility of AGG in RtR. I'd be happy with any of Julius/Mehmed/Zara though. We'll see.

I don't know if I'll be getting many thoughts from Hitru, as there are essays being written in the PB38 chat right now, and that's definitely the priority for him. So if any passing lurkers are unspoiled or just feel they could point out any gross errors in my facts (like swapping Gligamesh and Zara's traits ... which I did in a draft), that would be nice. I should note that I'm happy with the slightly "hands-off" ded-lurking; I actually dreaded the idea of getting someone terribly serious who I would only disappoint.

[Hitru]

I'm pretty sure Zulu and Inca are gone by the time we get to pick, but if not I would like either of them. I think Ethiopia, Korea and Persia are all viable here.

For leaders I would also add Pro-Imp as an option, especially if you happen to get inca. That does lack the economic trait, but it has enough early game benefits that you should get economic advantage from having more and bigger cities .

Otherwise I agree with your idea of expansion trait combined with economy trait. I do not consider Agg to be an expansion trait though as it does not save hammers for workers or settlers or give faster granaries.
Mehmed is really strong, for example, and works with basically all civs.

[DaveV]

Thanks: it's a terrible naming theme, as it covers less than half the alphabet and several of the book titles are too long, but I'm going with it anyway - I plan to just fill in the gaps with titles that sound suitable ("Incurable Ill" for example). So, suggestions welcome for D, F, J, K, L, N, O, Q, U, X, Y and Z. Particularly O, Q, and Y, for which I've got nothing so far.

Character names? Duncan Quagmire, Frank Denouement, Jerome Squalor, Kit Snicket, Lemony Snicket, Vice Principal Nero, Olivia Caliban, Quigley Quagmire, Uncle Monty. X, Y, and Z are still a problem.