[SPOILERS] Semi-retired thread. yuris125, pitboss 50

[yuris125]

verix is the password

[yuris125]

The snake pick with starts thrown in is an interesting puzzle. This is why I decided to go for a starting position first:

* Tight map changes the value of some traits. E.g. I think that bonuses to building construction are less valuable, simply because we will construct fewer buildings. Imperialistic obviously suffers as well
* There are some traits which may be more or less valuable depending on other picks. I don't particularly want to pick Creative; not only are cheaper libraries less important in this game, they're also now available to other traits. However if everyone else is Creative, I would want to be Creative myself, so as not to autolose every early game culture war. I wanted to see the leaders others choose before picking one myself
* I think northern starts are... not necessarily better than southern ones, but thanks to better island options there more viable options to play them, therefore it's easier to adapt to what other are doing. So unlike the leader choice, and even less the civ choice, I had a fairly strong preference for the starting position, and had to make the pick now to guarantee it

The reason I picked start 1 over 2 is that it allows for a fairly safe 2nd city on the mainland, to the east of the capital, claiming fish and ivory. Start 2 would have to expand to the south, and their 2nd city will be more exposed. Start 1 also gives the option to contest some flood plains and the spare copper tile with start 4 - but I won't be obligated to do so. There are a number of plans I can consider once everyone's picks are finalised, but I think this is the most flexible starting position

For my next pick, unless I'm forced to go creative, my preferred leader is currently Hannibal. There's a lot of food in the capital, so a lot of room to grow, and not that much happiness to support it (1-2 pre-calendar resources). I think growing the capital to a larger size thanks to charismatic happiness will be a viable way to gain an advantage. High amount of food is likely why Scooter picked a Phi leader - supporting the specialists another way to use all the early food. With all capitals being coastal and not a lot of great inland tiles to work, I think getting Fin bonus from working coast will be worthwhile as well. I also considered Wang Kon, although with our starting archer already promoted all the way to CG3, and archers usually not being the units of choice to build, I don't know how much value protective has. Maybe it does for crossbows? Will this game even last to crossbows? That's what I'm currently thinking about, and as I said I may need to further adapt depending on what others pick. Hey, I might even end up going for a trivial option of Agg Rome if the pick goes the right way

[yuris125]

So much for my idea of seeing which leaders others pick before deciding on mine. And Superdeath is going to be me southern neighbour. Thinking of taking Persia and seeing if I can pressure him with Immortals and delaying the leader pick until the last round. Depends on what Scooter chooses of course - he doesn't have to spend the pick on start, so is sure to pick a civ this round. And there are numerous options which are traditionally strong in AW, but I can't think of any which have good synergy with Cre/Phi. Won't be surprised if he chooses a civ with strong early defences (Babylon maybe?) and tries to wait it out until Phi comes to shine

On the other hand, if I'm planning to pressure Superdeath with mounted units, maybe I shouldn't try to be too smart for my own good, maybe I should just pick Egypt

[yuris125]

The reason I went Egypt over Persia is that with my intention to take a Cha leader, and the high food capitals, this may be the game for Obelisks to shine. Maybe? Possibly? Also not having to worry about War Chariots myself, and instead making others worry about them, was appealing. I think there was a high chance of Superdeath taking Egypt if I didn't

[yuris125]

Am I underrating Phi? That's 2/4 Phi leaders now

[yuris125]

After spending an hour with the sandbox, I have a plan of actions for the early turns. For reference, this is my start with the map revealed




The main point of contention is the desert hill SW of my gold. This is the best second city spot I see. On a hill, claiming a lot of inland territory, some flood plains and the spare copper, and sharing good tiles with the capital. The river makes it easier to defend against Superdeath. I don't see a better 2nd city spot on the entire map. Its main problem is that it makes the western fish not reachable from the main continent, but it still can be used by a city on top of the dyes

So here's how I want to go about claiming this spot. I researched Mining first, which to be honest was more or less an autoclick, I have a gold resource I will want to work as early as possible, I will likely want Bronze Working sooner rather than later, wasn't it an obvious choice?

Well, fortunately it wasn't a mistake as such, since I don't have room for changing the tile configuration until the Worker is out. But I had to think about it. Fishing was another early tech I had to consider, after all I took a Fin leader with intention to take advantage of coastal tiles, and opening the option to work them as early as possible is important for micro. That's the main result of today's sandbox session - I actually need Fishing before BW. Fortunately I figured this out fast enough, and could choose Fishing just as Mining finished. There was some leeway anyway - Fishing had to be done before my city grew to size 2

The other question I had to consider is whether it was better to go for each BW at all, or if I should go for AH first. I took Egypt in an AW game after all, I have to build some War Chariots. Well, I'm sure there will be War Chariots aplenty, but BW not only unlocks chopping, but also gives the extra hammer of production as soon as it's researched - and that's reasons enough to prioritise it. Researching BW first does not delay the first War Chariot, nor does it delay the 2nd city

The general early game plan is to grow the capital to size 4, work the corn, the fish, the gold (all improved) + the 2/0/3 lake, build a settler with a chop going into it, and settle the 2nd city on T35. I may be able to shave a turn or two off it depending on which tiles I need to work to best adapt to Superdeath's play. I expect to whip an axe and complete a spear with overflow immediately after the settler is out, send them towards the new city, then focus on war chariots. I'm also considering a religion, the 2nd city will be culture pressured by Superdeath's capital and making it holy will help

I have a detailed micro plan, but I will have to adapt it depending on how aggressively others play, how early they go for military units, etc. I will keep an eye on Superdeath (and to a lesser extent on Cornflakes, but his natural expansion path is towards Scooter, not towards me, so I expect he will leave me alone initially) and tweak as necessary. I would like to improve the gold immediately after the corn, and the micro plan I have includes working high production tiles (0f/3h and 1f/2h forests) over the 3f/1c corn for a few turns after the worker is out. This will allow me to have a warrior protecting the worker by the turn it needs to move onto the gold tile. But if Superdeath doesn't go for a warrior after the initial worker, I can delay my own warrior as well

[yuris125]

No score increases since everyone got the first tech, seems everyone but me went straight for BW as the 2nd tech. I think I should be ok even if someone builds an axe and sends my way, I won't be more than 5 turns behind on BW (the time my Fishing detour took) and in an emergency can switch to Slavery earlier than planned and do an emergency whip. Helps that I already have Superdeath's graphs and should be aware of his early units. No one put any espionage points on me btw, dunno how I should feel about it

Everyone going straight for BW makes me not want to build an early warrior. I wanted to have a unit to cover the worker as it improves the gold. It's on a desert hill, will take 8 turns to build a mine + a road, and I don't feel confident having an unprotected worker on the border with Superdeath for 8 turns. Problem is, in the world of axes a worker protected by a warrior is not that different from an unprotected one. One can only hope Superdeath (and most everyone) find building a workboat after the initial worker and forgoing a warrior more appealing

[yuris125]

Everyone's initial power demos for my reference

Everyone has an Archer = 3k points
Everyone's capital is at size 1 = 0 points
Starting techs:
Superdeath (America) - Agri/Fishing, 0 points
Cornflakes (Babylon) - Agri/Wheel, 4k points
myself (Egypt) - Agri/Wheel, 4k points
Scooter (Rome) - Fishing/Mining, 2k points

I believe everyone who started without Mining researched it as the first tech = +2k points for everyone but Scooter

Final count as of now:
Superdeath - 5k
Cornflakes - 9k
myself - 9k
Scooter - 5k

However.....




I'm missing 3k power somewhere (rival average is 7.33k, so rival total is 22k). I can't figure out how it's possible. I know rival best and rival worst values, so I actually know all values - 10k, 7k, and 5k. Superdeath is the one at 5k, I have his graph and he has a single power jump, same as mine, when he discovered the first tech - presumably Mining. This matches what I pencilled in for him as well. I can see Scooter building a early warrior (2k points), it's possible, but he's the farthest away from me and I'm not going to risk my scout to go and confirm it. But I can't figure out how Cornflakes could've gotten 1k more points than expected - I'm looking at BTS values for the power rating and it's very tricky to get 1k points in the early game

Ah.... figured it out. Cornflakes has a Bowman, not an Archer - that's the 1k difference. Leaving the rambling it, I spent 10 minutes thinking aloud, might as well....

What about Scooter's extra 2k? Actually that's also accounted for, his best food resource is a pig, so his opening tech was Hunting, not Agriculture as I initially thought - that's worth 2k points

So.... no one has a military unit out yet, and I should pay more attention to the demos

[yuris125]

As expected, everyone is discovering BW this turn (T17). I'm lagging behind, but I have a nice 2/0/3 coastal tile to work at size 2 - and I can work it thanks to the detour to Fishing. I don't have any other 2-food tiles, so I think getting Fishing done early was worthwhile. My BW will finish only 4 turns later; even if Superdeath decides to go all out to ruin my game, I will be able to swap to Slavery and whip a defensive Axe in time. But I don't expect it will be needed

I will work high food configuration (the 6/0/1 corn farm and a 2/0/3 coastal tile) at size 2, then at size 3 I will have to work some 1/2/0 and 0/3/0 tiles to get a workboat out. As soon as I grow to 4 I will start a Settler

[yuris125]

Everyone discovered BW the turn the capital grew to size 2, so everyone's power went up by 9k (8k for BW and 1k for size 2 city). Looks like this matches the demos, so no one still built any military units. Cornflakes is the only one to go to Slavery so far... gotta keep an eye on his whips now. I'm going to wait with the switch until the settler is out