[SPOILERS] ALWAYS PEACE? What will Lewwyn do?

[Lewwyn]

It's sometimes hard coming up with things to talk about during these updates. From turn to turn sometimes the only thing that changes is the demos. Today was one of those days. SO let's talk about Aggressively settling Nakor.

This is actually pretty interesting in terms of will he see it coming. Here's the pic in question:



Nakor is moving his Q East. My settler will be finished next turn from 2 chops and one turn of production. (When the city hits 4 pop I'm going to whip out a 2nd settler too!). Now the best route for my settler will be NE-NE-N-N-N-NE. Unfortunately, if I finish the settler next turn and then go NE-NE or NE-N or even NE-NW Nakor's Q will see it along his current course East. If he goes south to checkout around my border I can go NE-NE without being seen.

So I think I'm going to be seen, and I wonder if Nakor will be able to whip a settler to try and grab the furs first or if he'll even realize what I'm doing. Either way Nakor needs to be moving now if he wants to stop me.

Things are good Empire wide.

Demos:



GNP is still great at 0%. I'm getting 99gpt.
Cyneheard is getting 16gpt.
Scooter is getting 56gpt! Scooter must have currency now. I wonder if Cyneheard does yet?

MFG = okiedokie.
Crop = should be Cyneheard who just broke 300. Only 40 back now. He's also got even cities with me. If the pop stat on demos is any indication he's got a lot of room to grow with a pretty big food surplus right now. So let me guess what he's been doing. Building Mines and Farms. Working the mines while building settlers and workers. Now working farms. Going to grow vertically and build cottages over farms. He probably has a large worker edge over me as well. I'm only at 27 workers. If I am right then he will begin to catch up with me a bit here. The question is whether this play that sacrifices earlier cottages and tech will end up better. I happen to think that I have an edge due to getting cottages started earlier and having them grow.

[Lewwyn]

Had a pretty busy week and the turn was super slow again. Scooter and Cyneheard were holding the turn 20+ hours each. SO I just sort of delayed reporting. But you'll still get the full report.

T110

Ah, this is the turn I'm supposed to update the city/worker stats.

Cities: 22
Settlers moving: 4
Workers: 27

Not bad. My opponents have 22, 19, and 15 or 16 cities ta this point.

Beyond that there was not too much that was interesting happening this turn. Here's one interesting thing:



Scooter has a settler, Q, my Q is here, Nakor's Q is here and Cyneheard's borders are here. All four players represented in one spot. Maybe not game relevant but interesting. Oh and there's the fact that this is a very similar border to what Cyneheard and I have/will have.

You may also notice I'm saving gold again for IW. More on that in coming turns.

T110 Demos:



GNP, MFG normal. Again Crop is closing the gap... We'll have to see about that. Problem is I'm going to be whipping a lot and all the easy Crop growth is gone since my cities are getting bigger and have less room to grow and grow less often. Still that means their bigger sooner with more developed cottages as evidenced by Cyneheard barely scraping by.

Scooter is doing much better in economy. Somewhere around 70+ gpt. Must have currency now.


Next turn. T111:

The highlight has to be:



Got him at about 80% odds. He'll build the shrine in 4 turns. Thats one thing I didn't think about. The distance of Wolves from the Holy City. Now wolves can build a settler and whip off the specialists.

Speaking of settlers:



Operation steal prime real estate from Cyneheard is a success. I can probably take more from him north and south of that position too. Lots of options for cutting him off.

Speaking of stealing land, Nakor can see my settler so we'll see how that plays out.

T111 Demos:



GNP, slight decrease due to far off city. I have set Tech at 0% again. I could have gotten IW this turn very easily. I decided instead to get another turn of gold so that I could run tech at 100% the next turn. If I run 100% tech on IW, I can then switch to 0% and the overflow from that one turn will complete both fishing and sailing! This means 2 turns of gold so I can run 100% tech again and finish Calendar in 1T. That's 4 techs in 4 turns.

MFG, I'm building a couple of mines so that's going up a bit.

Crop went up but Cyneheard is keeping pace. Everything else looks good.

Next Turn, T112.

Interesting turn for a couple of reasons. First, Scooter planted his city so he's at 20 cities to my 23 and Cyne's 22. Also Scooter ran tech at 100% for the first time in a while. We'll look at what that means in the demos.



Here's a shot of me about to steal Nakor's furs(and double corn), which will give him one less happy resource... Poor Nakor. He can see it coming but I don't know if he can stop it since its a bit far from his core.

Also in this shot you can see I've turned tech up. 422 beakers without discounts and known bonuses. IW is 300- about 50 from Scientist beakers during 0%. SO about half the beakers will overflow into Fishing and Sailing (60 and 150). I think though that the overflow will continue all the way into Calender. Very cool. My GNP before ending turn was 353.

I also checked to see if anyone knew any techs that I didn't know by switching and checking for the known tech bonus. Nope. No one else has IW, Alpha, Aestheics, CS. Obviously noone has Philo or Theo, nor archery or HA. The only one that other people may have is the Fishing>Sailing>Calender tech line. And actually I hope they do so that I get extra bonuses from them.

Here's a shot of Cyneheard border:



I need a couple more workers, going to whip a few out.

At EOT:



What? There's only one Iron on each section of mirror and its directly on the tile that I want to plant my next city? Efffff. I'm not sure what to do now. I'm thinking I may move 1E. Also a possibility is 1SE. More overlap but it steals the rice and allows it to toggle back and forth. Plus its on a PH instead of a GrassHill. Writing about it now it seems like that's what I'll do. I'll just have Zebras work all grass cottage tiles and it won't need to worry about food.

Additionally I'm planning a city 1S of the FP on the plains tile 4 tiles east of the iron. It will be a filler city between the Nakor fur's site and this iron site.

T112 Demos:



The leading GNP right now is Scooter's. Mine is currently not set on any tech, but that's still pretty impressive by Scooter. He won't be able to sustain that into next turn though. He needs a religion and a shrine. I wonder if he will go for Christianity of Taoism now that I've stolen Confu.

MFG I shot up. Like I said, more mines.

Food, wow nicely done by Cyneheard. Almost caught up. Though I am 2-3 pop whipping a lot right now. Getting those forges done. Settlers out. Whipping two more settlers next turn and 3 are moving. Trying to get all my workers in place in order to chop Terraces into these new cities. Shouldn't be an issue.

Pop, Cyneheard got over the 3 mil mark. I'm over the 5mil mark though now.

My life expectancy has been 4 this whole time. There a couple reasons. A) I don't have corn hooked to my network which would instantly provide +2 health to every city, B) I've chopped more forests, C) My cities are bigger and generate more filth, D) I'm building forges for even more. Yay for the rape of nature!

Everything looks good.

[mackoti]

very nice played.

How fast can you get to printing press?

[Lewwyn]

very nice played.

How fast can you get to printing press?

Yeah man thats like the number 1 priority after Calender. Its going to depend on how much these new cities set me back on GNP. We will see but ATM I'm still making 95ish~ at 0%

Problem is I really think Scooter and cyne are phoning it in. Scooter held the turn another 20 hours and passed it to Cyne at 11 PM his time. He begged off tired and so I'm waiting another day. It funnny that Nakor is the most on time and he's lowest on the totem pole.

[Lewwyn]

T113

Interesting turn. IW in, Set tech to 0% and Fishing. EOT Fishing came in and Sailing will finish next turn. Love that overflow from 100% rate BEFORE I put all these new cities down.

I'm at 25 cities now 2 new ones down and 3 settlers moving. Let's look at the two new cities:



Will pop borders and get that pigs...



On the border, chop came in and Terrace finished. Borders'll pop in 5 turns. EDIT: Oh and quick question! I'm considering farming the FP NE of the corn here so that it spreads irrigation. The only other way its gets irrigation is a chain farm from the little lake west of it and I'd have to settle it in order to control the chain. Usually I would just cottage the FP, but is it worth farming in order to get an extra food out of the corn. Seriously considering it in part because that would make this city better for whipping and production(farmed FP-4, irrigated corn-6 = 10 food off 2 tiles). It's far away from the center so it should be considered less of a commerce city...

Over on operation steal Nakor's furs:



Next turn I'll plant the city. Worker there will be chopping the terrace immediately too. Two more settlers moving to sites west of the Nakor plant.

A note about economy. I'm only getting 76gpt due to the last 3 plants. They are in all different directions. The Nakor will definitely be a hit on the economy but that's fine. My Shrine still hasn't gotten up yet and I haven't started any courthouses yet. I'm going to save A LOT with courthouses. Still getting Forges down right now tho (I've only had MC for a few turns anyway). The great thing is that I am riding the overflow wave on Fishing and Sailing into Calendar and I can finish Calendar with the gold saved up during fishing and sailing. I am considering not finishing Calendar right away though. I may wait a turn for more gold so I can still run at 100% tech. Besides I can't build plantations until my workers finish clearing the jungle. SO I will probably time Calendar to finish the turn my workers finish chopping the jungle on the dyes and the banana.

DEMOS



0% tech rate GNP here. Scooter is at 0 gold and 0gpt right now. Cyneheard still collecting gold at 30gpt. 2 turns to shrine...

MFG maybe break 100 soon.

Crop: Cyneheard is closing in and I'm betting he passes me soon. I'm running more mines and he's running more farms. I did however just whip 2 settlers, a worker, a forge and I think something else. And I'm going to whip some more next turn too.

Land: Someones tied me up! I think it's Cyneheard with his wide plants and popping borders. I have 25 cities, cyne and scooter are both at 22... forgot to check Nakor's.

Still good.

[mackoti]

How many workers do you have?
I think you have to stop from setlrs and build near 50 workers so like every city you plant to get productive in maximum 10 turns.
And more important to prepare teh cities which will whiped for universities.

[NobleHelium]

The Nakor will definitely be a hit on the economy but that's fine.

Just noticed this sentence. :neenernee

[Lewwyn]

How many workers do you have?
I think you have to stop from setlrs and build near 50 workers so like every city you plant to get productive in maximum 10 turns.
And more important to prepare teh cities which will whiped for universities.

This turn at 30. Plans for another 5 within 2 turns. Not too worried about the preparation for Unis. I need the cities to get forges and courthouses down first. Unis will be whipped with a 50% bonus (OR, Forge) if I have that done.

Just noticed this sentence. :neenernee

Yeah. :D

Funnily enough this turn when I planted the "Nakor site" i was about a 10gpt hit. But when I ended turn I got a 10gpt rebound so the net effect was a wash.



Nakor's Q has been ostracized. Worker is chopping terrace. You can also see the settler for the city West of this one moving. Pigs spawned both of those settlers and it will whip out another worker to help take care of these new cities.

One of the reasons my econ rebounded was I teched Sailing. With that Every city that was previously not connected (except Ravens) was connected. So it was a bout a 6 gpt bump just from that. So I've teched IW, Fishing, Sailing in the last 3 turns have some overflow left, plus 186 gold from the last two turns of 0% tech. I will likely keep it at 0% the next 2 turns given that I won't need Calendar until the jungle is cleared from the banana/dyes tiles.

Also on the subject of economy:



Next turn I'll finally get my shrine up and running. Turns have been moving so slow that it feels like ages since St. Peter here was born. I have 17 cities with Hinduism atm. It will be a nice boost.

I'm microing a bunch of cities for growth right now. In order to grow pop to whip off the buildings I need built. I've found however that I'm unwilling to whip off some of my core cities so that they don't lose the pop to keep working the cottages. I think that might change, however, once they've gotten big enough.

Demos:



I'm behind Cyneheard here in GNP because he's running at a deficit this turn. I don't think he's getting more deficit turns though as he ran out of money too quickly. My opponents are 266, 154, 135. It's quite a big drop off from the deficit runner to the non-deficit runner.

In MFG I didn't break 100.

Crop is interesting. Before I end of turn Cyneheard had finally taken the lead. But this turn a bunch of cities regrew from whips and I ended turn ahead of him again. 373, 321, 200. Nakor is really dragging here. But Scooter isn't really catching up. His economy is better than Cyneheard's and I think he's running cottages like me and not Farms>switch to cottages like Cyneheard.

It always makes me laugh when I look at the soldier count because I never switched into HR and yet I still have more warriors even though logic says my opponents in HR should be leveraging their civic with extra warriors. Simply unnecessary.

Land, I'd best be tops in land given I have 26 cities to Cyneheard and Scooter's 22 each.

Cyneheard is really catching up in pop, which is something I'd expect with me whipping almost every city and him running farms. Still I think it's too late now that I've got the lead in cities, developed cottages, economy and tech. His economy has not recovered enough from his expansion to compete with me and I'm still expanding forcing him to expand as well or lose out in terms of land/growth. And I still need to pop my shrine.

I really want to get alphabet so I can see exactly how my opponents are doing. Still tech will most likely go Calendar>CS>Alpha>Machinery>Paper>PP. I want PP with a vengeance. CS before alpha for farm chains. Machinery before paper for Windmills.

[mackoti]

Hey, its alowed to go with a great merchant to cash the money?
I realy enjoy your updates and think you have a lot of patience to carry this empire.What year you expect to lunch the rocket?
Dont you think you have enough cities?
26 cities its more than enough for a 1500-1600 launch, you think if you get more cities will be faster?

[Lewwyn]

Hey, its alowed to go with a great merchant to cash the money?
I realy enjoy your updates and think you have a lot of patience to carry this empire.What year you expect to lunch the rocket?
Dont you think you have enough cities?
26 cities its more than enough for a 1500-1600 launch, you think if you get more cities will be faster?

GM money would require OBs so I don't think that's available.

Rocket launch? Not sure yet. Its normal speed but plays a bit like Quick withe EXP/IMP. Sort of throws off my estimates especially given the up and down nature of my tech pace with expansion.

As to whether I should stop expanding and at what point will enough cities be enough. I'm really not sure, because I feel I'm still at the point where the cities I'm placing will have a positive effect upon the economy in the long run. I think for me that's the question. When's a good time to plateau and put off more expansion? I mean once I get to State Property, every single city will be a positive.

That's one of things I found in 18 actually. I reached a point where it was beneficial not to plant cities, but then I reached a point where I felt I needed new cities to keep up. So something I went into this game with was the idea to just never stop building cities... Just make sure I had the support for that plan. As a result you see I had the early commerce hooked up faster and expanded a faster pace then my opponents. So now to think, "Hmm is this enough?" is maybe the wrong question. I would say, "Will this city make me stronger in the future?"

Its weird because in this game you don't need production for unit and wars. Instead you're looking for production for expansion and commerce. So the sprawl is actually self supporting at this point. All my newer cities are being whipped harder than my core while they build workers infrastructure and more settlers. Eventually they are all going to be giving a ton of Commerce too though. Each city will have trade routes, religion for shrine bonuses, and then Mercantilism for extra specialist goodies. And if you look at where am in terms of tech, I'm only at Calendar/CS. Usually at this point in a game we're still expanding. I mean Gaspar was still expanding in 14 and it was his continued expansion that slowly stole him the lead. 26 sounds like a lot, but this map is just so huge.

Short answer, yes I think more cities = faster. It's all bit of a fun experiment given I've never played an Always Peace game before.