[Civforum PB90] Cornflakes Ventures Out of the Realms Beyond, and into the Unknown

[Tarkeel]

Now that is one nasty starting location. I hope there's some seafood in the fog, but it's very easy to orphan some of it. Am I correct that the only hill is the furs?

My first instinct is two cities, where the warrior is and N of the settler.

[Cornflakes]

You are correct that there is just one hill.

My first instinct is two cities, where the warrior is and N of the settler.

But that would put the 2/2/0 forested wheat in 2nd ring (3 extra turns to the worker), and cost an extra turn as compared to settle in place. It would also burn two forests unnecessarily as compared to settle in place with the 2nd city on the southern tip.

I hope there's some seafood in the fog, but it's very easy to orphan some of it.

I fear orphaning seafood as well. We could use the settler for more scouting this turn (either 1NW or 1E). Then next turn move the warrior 1NW to check for seafood west of the furs. Trading 1 turn on the growth curve for an informed settling decision.

In thinking about this from a high level, it seems to me like the game will be won by the player that can break out of the starting island first. The growth curve on the snowball is severely stunted at 2 cities, and then will spike upwards once the seas are unlocked. Getting to that spike 5 turns earlier with a settler ready to load immediately should put that player ahead of the curve for the rest of the game.

[Cornflakes]

Password if either of you want to log in is: aa ... [yep, just a quick lowercase aa]. Please don't move anything or change anything without discussing first but feel free to log in whenever you want.

I'll edit the password into the first post for future reference.

[Cornflakes]

After some quick runs through a sim, settling in place is clearly better for the initial snowball as compared to 1E. Squeezing a 3rd city onto the starting landmass doesn't seem practical. It either delays expansion off-island, or becomes a later filler which wouldn't make up for the inefficiencies at the start. Therefore I'll settle in place. In all likelihood any seafood potentially-orphaned seafood would be picked up from and adjacent island or mainland. If there are double coastal fish to the west of the furs I'll be shaking my fist at the mapmaker all game.

Rough timing for Sailing is approximately T55, with tech order Hunting > Mining > Bronze Working > Pottery > Fishing > Sailing. 2 workers, Workboat completed a few turns before the galley to get some exploration in advance. Settler ready to board as soon as the galleon is whipped.

   

Obviously with 20+ gold in the treasury there is room to shave down Sailing by a turn or two. I forgot to run binary science after founding the 2nd city and just let it auto-adjust to 80%. But this is good enough for now.

   

[Tarkeel]

Some more random thoughs.

• In general, I think worker labor isn't going to be the limiting factor here for a while.
  
• I have to keep reminding myself that this isn't CtH, so there's no use saving any of those forests for lumbermills.
  
• I'd actually look into cottaging some of the river-plain tiles.
  
• I see you have a workboat out, I think we'll have to dedicated one to scouting early on.
  
• The only bad thing I see about settling where it's at right now, is that we lock in the other city site as well. Downside to going further north is lost turn, and not being able to work the wheat before borders pop.
  
• I wonder how many will settle in place?
  

[Cornflakes]

The workboat is completed about 6 turns before the galley so it should have time to locate a suitable site for the settler.

I think you’re right about cottage grove the riverside plains. The two wheat resources provide +5 surplus to each city which will just barely support all those plains. Hopefully we can at least find seafood in the fog off the southern tip. Otherwise we won’t be whipping much once we break off the island.

[Cornflakes]

I present to you our home for the next 50 turns:

   

We have 2nd ring fish at the southern city but I don't think that will have any impact whatsoever on the first 50 turns because we don't have a means to pop borders.

CHA is a nice bonus for naval combat since we can achieve double promotions on ships with with Theocracy + Vassalage, and triple promotions with Drydocks.

Double-scientists-bulb of Astronomy needs to be considered. Maybe we should target an early push to the top of the tech tree for Great Library and National Epic? We are IND, but wonders are still high risk plays in this large playing field.

[Tarkeel]

I've been trying to put together my thoughts on the opponents, but it's been a rough week here. I'd consider pushing hard for Oracle into MetalCasting, to unlock our cheap forges. Remember that this isn't CtH, so MC is full cost.

[superdeath]

Is there anything you could skip to get sailing/a city on the other landmass quicker? Or will it end up about the same time as having the 2nd city on the island? I feel getting an earlier foothold = better position.

[Cornflakes]

Nothing more to talk about yet. It's only T9 so still waiting on the worker to complete, and really our next decision point is around T25 when we have to choose which forest to chop first (obvious choice is grassland for a cottage). I did get Hunting a turn or two ago so I'm on to Mining > BW ... which reminds me of copper. Will we have copper on our starting island? From what I've seen at Civforum their standard is to have copper in the capital. So we may end up with another nice production tile to work.