Well, that screenshot works for me on my pc, but I tend to prefer to use the screenshot tag, since then it automatically resizes it.
image without screenshot tag (from my very first PB here):
image with screenshot tag
click on it to resize.
I'll have a crack at those sims later today.
So are you thinking then to pick a civ first no matter what? Who seem to have the four you're interested in already decided.
(June 25th, 2018, 17:00)Mr. Cairo Wrote: Well, that screenshot works for me on my pc, but I tend to prefer to use the screenshot tag, since then it automatically resizes it.
image without screenshot tag (from my very first PB here):
Alright then, let me try that method...
(June 25th, 2018, 17:00)Mr. Cairo Wrote: So are you thinking then to pick a civ first no matter what? Who seem to have the four you're interested in already decided.
Oh, no. I still plan to follow your advice and go for a leader first, and I want to try out a few more civs before I pick, too. It was just that in my previous simming session I only had time for those four civs. I plan to try some more later today.
to use the screenshot tag you need to upload the image to a hosting site. I use imgur. Then you put the direct url between the tags.
But it doesn't really matter since it looks like your resolution will fit in the page. it's only ever an issue for really high resolution images. I was going to use an example of a Civ6 screen I had from a different computer with a super-wide screen, but it was too large to upload
Anyway, the way you did it the first time is just fine.
As promised, here are the next set of sims. I tried a few with different leaders this time.
Mehmed II of Carthage, take one
Tech path: Agriculture turn 10, Bronze Working about turn 25, Hunting one turn away on turn 31.
Build path: worker turn 10, work boat turn 18, warrior turn 22, settler turn 29
Improvement path: corn farm turn 14, sugar farm turn 19, grass hill mine turn 24, chop turn 29
End state: Turn 31, capital 3 pop, second city one pop, sugar, corn, crabs, and a hill improved. In Slavery.
Conclusion: It is a bit hard to make fair comparisons between this test and previous ones, because previous ones had worthless (for the very start) traits, while this one had Exp. Despite that, I think I can safely confirm that Fishing is not the best starting tech to have, but it is bearable if we want to take a Fishing civ for its Unique Building or Unique Unit (I’m not sure if I want to do that, however).
Julius Caesar of the Holy Roman Empire, take one
Tech path: Mining turn 8, Bronze Working turn 23, start Agriculture.
Build path: worker turn 12, warrior turn 19, settler turn 26.
Improvement path: sheep pasture turn 16, mine turn 21, chop turn 25.
End state: Turn 28, second city with one pop settled northwest of the capital, the sheep is pastured, a hill is mined, and I am in Slavery.
Conclusion: Hmm, I don’t feel very satisfied with this sim. If I decide that I am very interested in Holy Rome, then I will need to do some more sims. I also think that a Holy Roman start just won’t be very pretty in general, even if I do it better. Lastly, it might be better to settle off to the northwest to share the sheep with a start like this.
Tokugawa of the Inca, take two
Tech path: Hunting turn 9, Mining turn 17, Bronze Working one turn out on turn 29.
Build path: worker turn 12, quechua turn 19, settler turn 28
Improvement path: corn farm turn 16, sheep pasture turn 21, sugar farm turn 27
End state: Turn 29, capital two pop, second city one pop, sheep, corn, and sugar improved, one worker, one warrior, no city connection.
Conclusion: I think that I like take one better. It is already one turn ahead in time, and through the Slavery revolt too, so it is even greater than that. The only thing that take two has over take one is one improved tile, but take one can use the whip to get a worker and rapidly catch up.
I will be back with my new and (hopefully) improved thoughts about my desired leaders and civs sometime soon.
(June 25th, 2018, 19:04)Mr. Cairo Wrote: to use the screenshot tag you need to upload the image to a hosting site. I use imgur. Then you put the direct url between the tags.
But it doesn't really matter since it looks like your resolution will fit in the page. it's only ever an issue for really high resolution images. I was going to use an example of a Civ6 screen I had from a different computer with a super-wide screen, but it was too large to upload
Anyway, the way you did it the first time is just fine.
Ha, the one time that having a low-resolution laptop is a good thing. Maybe I will see about setting up my images on an image hosting site, but if they are fine as is then I probably won't.
I have done some simulations, I have done some thinking, I have gotten some advice, and now it is time to truly figure out what I want to play as in this game.
I am almost completely certain that I want to play as an Organized leader. I think that playing a balanced leader, with an earlier-game expansion trait and a later-game economic trait, is a good idea, and Organized will fill the role of the later-game economic trait. I thought about Creative, Expansive, and Imperialistic to fill the role of an earlier-game expansion trait in my combo. I think/hope that I can, with proper planning, manage to make an effective dotmap that does not require quick culture, so I don’t prefer Creative. The decision between Expansive and Imperialistic is harder, and I am still not quite sure what I want most. Right now, I favor Expansive because I think that the hammers saved on infrastructure in the midgame can make up for a perhaps slightly slower early game in comparison to Imperialistic. That makes my first pick Mehmed II and my second Julius Caesar. However, like I said, I am not quite sure.
Now, for the civs. I would have said that China was my top choice, because I think that its starting techs enable the best opening for my start, but Charriu already took China. Korea has the same starting techs, so I am strongly considering Korea now. However, I haven’t really made up my mind on civs yet. As mentioned, Korea is a strong contender for my pick, but so is Zulu, and India could be good despite its slow start, and the Inca might just cause me to throw everything out the window if they are still up when my first pick comes. To sum up, I’m not sure yet. I plan to make use of some more sims after I have picked my leader to make a more informed decision.
Mr. Cairo, any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.
Well, you can't go wrong with ORG, and as I said before I prefer EXP over IMP, but they're both good, so Mehmed or Julius would be good leaders, if you can get them.
As for civs, China/Korea have the best starting techs. Korea does have a fairly mediocre UU and UB. As for the Inca and Zulu, I would rather have a PRO or AGG leader, respectively, for them. Especially a PRO leader with the Inca.
Another thing to consider are civs with UBs that are half-price thanks to your leader traits. Here's a list for EXP, IMP, and ORG.
EXP: Aqueduct - Baray (Khmer, +1 food), and Hamman (Ottoman, +2 happy) Harbour - Cothon (Carthage, +1 Trade Routes) Market - Forum (Rome, +35% GP rate) Grocer - Apothecary (Persia, +2 Health), Mall (USA, +1 Happy from some resources)
IMP: Custom House - Feitoria (Portugal, +1 commerce on water tiles)
ORG: Lighthouse - Trading Post (Vikings, +25% build speed for water units) Courthouse - Ziggurat (Sumer, available earlier and for less hammers), Sacrificial Altar (Aztecs, less hammers and reduced whip unhappy duration), Rathaus (HRE, addition -25% on maintenance) Factory - Assembly Plant (Germany, 2 more Engineer slots, and 50% build speed with coal)
Obviously some of these are better than others. The one that really stands out to me is the Sac Altar. With RtR nerfing whips, one tends to do 1pop whips a lot more than normal, and the Sac Altar lets you do more and more of those whips without needing as much food as normal, where you're regrowing from 2 or 3 pop whips. At first glance it appears the Sac Altar was nerfed by RtR, by I think it's just made it more flexible. It does tend to warp your gameplay around it, but not to the extent it used to.
The other good ones are the Baray and Hamman, since they make the Aqueduct actually worth building, so their bonus really ought to include the +2 health of the Aqueduct, since you're unlikely to build a normal one with another civ.
The Cothon, Forum, Apothecary, and Mall are all fairly mediocre. The Feitoria and Trading Post are good on water heavy maps, and with 6 players, this is unlikely to be too water-heavy.
The Ziggurat is good, but it is coupled with a mediocre UU, and requires going down a tech path you might not want to go down in the early game, and Sumer doesn't even start with Myst.
The Rathaus is overrated, and so is the Landsknecht.
But all those civs come with starting techs that may or may not fit with your start. For example, for all I talked up the Aztecs, they start with Myst and Hunting, which are not good techs for this start. So it really does depend on how much you value the starting techs.
I was kinda surprised to see China go first, I would usually only expect India or Inca to go first, maybe we'll get luck and Inca will still be available.
Thank you for your thoughts. I have now narrowed down my options for the snake pick into two potential paths.
Path One: Going on Path One, I would use my first pick to get Mehmed II if he is available, Julius Caesar if Mehmed II isn’t. If neither are available, then I would just abandon this path. For my civs on this path, I am considering Korea, the Aztecs, and the Ottomans. Korea has the best starting techs to get me going quickly, but, as you pointed out, they have poor uniques. The other two civs have poorer starting techs but better uniques. I would have to dismiss the Ottomans from consideration unless I got Mehmed for cheap Hammans. However, if I do get him, then I think that I favor them. I did a sim and found that they can have a fairly good start by ignoring Hunting and going right for Bronze Working. The Aztecs have a weaker start because ignoring Agriculture in a similar way just does not work well, and I am having a very hard time deciding if I like Hammans or Sacrificial Altars better. Right now, I favor Mehmed II of the Ottomans as my combo, but…
Path Two: …if the Inca are still available when my first pick comes, then I will need to think about taking them instead. Their start isn’t that bad because, like the Ottomans, they can ignore Hunting and go right for Bronze Working (although their start is a little weaker because they don’t have the Wheel to road towards the second city site), and the Terrace is of course very good. Off the top of my head, I think that I would want Mao or Tokugawa as my leader with them, but I will have time to think more about that matter if I go for the Inca first.
Upon further reflection, I think that there are some other options worth considering.
Path One Addendum: The Khmer are worth considering with Mehmed II. They have two out of the three key first column techs for our start (they have Hunting and Mining out of Hunting, Mining, and Agriculture), so they can research Agriculture and then Bronze Working to pull of the same start I did in the Zulu sim. They also have, as you pointed out, an aqueduct UB to be boosted by Mehmed. However, I don’t think that it is as good as the Hammam or the Sacrificial Altar, and I’m not sure that the better start the Khmer have makes up for it.
Path Three: I shouldn’t dismiss the Zulu either. Their start was very good, and both of their uniques are solid. What makes me hesitate here is that I do not think they are a good match for the Organized trait that I desire. My understanding of the math is that multiple city maintenance discounts (Org’s discounted Courthouses, the Zulus’ Ikandas, and the Aggressive trait that I would surely want to have with the Zulu) have counter-synergy with each other because each successive bonus saves less than it would on its own. Also, if I take Aggressive and Organized then I don’t really have an earlier-game expansion trait. Still, the Zulu are worth thinking about.
Well, Path Three is out, because superdeath took the Zulu. That leaves the question as: do I want to take Path One or Path Two? Hmm…
I want to take Path Two. It does, sadly, mean I am not going to have Organized (because the Inca DEMAND Protective, and Org/Pro doesn’t exist), but the Inca have a decent opening with my start, an incredible Unique Building, and, to seal the deal, my dedlurker recommends them. Inca it is.
I now need to figure out what leader I want to take with them, and doing some more sims surely couldn’t hurt. I should be back with my thoughts sometime soon.
EDIT: Also, what are your thoughts on the matter of what leader we should take with the Inca?
![[Image: MVTQtqW.png]](http://i.imgur.com/MVTQtqW.png)
