(September 20th, 2020, 20:15)Rusten Wrote: Isn't roading the hill going to delay our 3rd city? The chop will be delayed? Can't see it being worth it if that's true.
Edit: Although it looks like it's already delayed due to more roads being made. Been a while since I played through the sim so IDK.
Well this past turn the worker couldn't do much besides roading, as moving onto a forest would have him just sitting there waiting for the tech. So no, no delay yet.
You're correct that roading that hill delays the second settler 3-4 turns. It gains settling the fish hill a turn earlier, and the horse improved 2 turns a earlier, but that's not worth it, so mark it down as a bad idea I had when half asleep already.
The fastest settler has both workers moving onto forests this turn. that means that any second city will get founded without a trade connection; if it's yellow, we found t33 and build the road t34. Also lets the worker road while moving towards the horse, so that's a plus.
I think I'm going to do just that. it has the benefit that if we decide for another 2nd city spot after seeing copper, there is less sunk cost in the form of roads.
and yes, on turn 30 our known tech buddies had increased to 3 from 2. Had this happened just one turn earlier we would have gotten the tech that turn.
The rest of the turn was uneventful. I sent both workers into the woods where they start chopping out the settler for the third city, while the cap starts working on the settler for 2nd .
Hit enter and was eager to see where copper is, but first:
I guess odds for Oracle increased to a little more likely. Else, we can live with naufragar having this I suppose. We'll get a naval border with him at some point and of course we'd like to not have cultural pressure there, but it's ok.
So, you think you already saw copper in the shot above? Well you haven't seen it all:
Pleasant surprise. Of course this is exposed and we will have to secure it, but I feel a whole lot better now about founding for horses first. I'm moving the southern warrior towards red dot, where it will arrive one turn after the settler. The scout is securing the southern plant.
It also brings the question of what to prioritize at red dot with the worker:
FP farm (can be started while the settler's still moving)
road for the TR and quicker reinforcements
cow
copper mine
a chop for something?
Gut feeling is 1-2-4. At 4 we should have 1-2 chariots already. Is the copper connected to the cap by the river, even without red dot being connected? That might swap 2 and 4.
Also finally time for light map complaints, because Mr. Cairo has this prime copper location:
That seems better than tundra deer. Also with CRE he could found for copper, horse, and 1.5 food. At least this confirms that he'll settle there most likely, so we should be good to get red dot. Now just gotta hold it...
While we're here, I got Cairo's graphs (actually on t30 already, but forgot it and spent 2 unnecessary EP on him - now set full steam on gira, who is ahead though):
Takeaways:
we came out ahead of the group in foodhammers, weirdly (considering the 2 lost turns on the worker), and are good on GNP as well compared with the coastal guys (Elkad is inflated with Buddhism culture). Of course this will collapse now with the 2pop whip I just cracked, but that was 90 hammers, so I won't complain...
Cairo has a 4(?!) food seafood resource, a 5 food land resource, and is working the banana I suppose? Is that a good opening, going clam/crab first?
In Cairo's power graph I see the 8k from bronze, 2x 2k from warriors or techs like hunting/wheel. He has also a pop growth (1k) that coincides with him working the 2nd food resource. But he should have grown again 4 turns before the right edge when he started working the three food tile. There there is a 2k increase, so 1k pop, and what could be the other 1k? Ok it seems the growth from 2 to 3 doesn't give power, only even numbers do (of total empirewide population).
More C&D - I've gone through some old demo screens and found the following:
t28 the rival average land area rose by 600 (and rival best 20k->21k, obviously not the same person), indicating a second city being founded.
t30 it increased again by 1100 (and rival best 21k->26k). These have to be at least two new cities.
t30 also rival worst pop rose from 1k to 2k, so that's one of them. I checked the old demos, and there has always been at least 1 player with 1k pop, so unless he grew and whipped immediately he just got the settler out the hard way
from t10 to 27 the rival average land remained constant, with the exception of t25 when gira had his border pop (800 point increase, that can't be him AND another city), so I'm rather confident that scooter had not founded his 2nd city when he got Hinduism on t27.
I've added an event and rival average land log to the spreadsheet. Anything else you'd like recorded? (Also global lurkers)
(September 23rd, 2020, 07:51)Rusten Wrote: Thanks for the sandbox, I might be able to play through some variations later tonight.
On that note, the sandbox probably lags in tech due to no KTB. We get Agriculture eot33, so if you want to, you can send the northern worker straight away to farm the flood plains for red dot.
Just a minimal report as I've got family visiting:
research set to 80% afterwards, so we just finish Agri at +1 gold. Next turn going to save gold. I'm planning to start the FP farm with the northern worker next turn unless you have an objection. I have not found time to sim this but may have a short run at least before playing the next turn.
Southern worker finishes the road to Agentes and then pastures the horse.
Fun fact, this turn working the mine is actually better than the pig, due to the IMP settler bonus and rounding. So good thing the new city can take care of it.
(September 21st, 2020, 17:18)Miguelito Wrote: More C&D - I've gone through some old demo screens and found the following:
t28 the rival average land area rose by 600 (and rival best 20k->21k, obviously not the same person), indicating a second city being founded.
t30 it increased again by 1100 (and rival best 21k->26k). These have to be at least two new cities.
t30 also rival worst pop rose from 1k to 2k, so that's one of them. I checked the old demos, and there has always been at least 1 player with 1k pop, so unless he grew and whipped immediately he just got the settler out the hard way
from t10 to 27 the rival average land remained constant, with the exception of t25 when gira had his border pop (800 point increase, that can't be him AND another city), so I'm rather confident that scooter had not founded his 2nd city when he got Hinduism on t27.
I've added an event and rival average land log to the spreadsheet. Anything else you'd like recorded? (Also global lurkers)
Correction here, t30 is Elkad's border pop from Buddhism, so those are two second cities less. Next turn scooter does the same.
Last turn or the one before (32) the rival total land increased by just 3 tiles, which is a bit strange for a second city, but I have no better explanation. This turn it increased by 9 tiles, I think this is more likely one than two (although we've just founded with just 4 land tiles).
Bug report from my sandbox, also proof that I'm being good, and simming:
I'm very positive that I have Justinian.
I don't know yet if this happens in the game as well. The plan was to build the road this turn, so the TR will be there next turn unless another player still builds a city, in which case I get it this turn already. Naufragar is still due to play and he actually whipped is settler the turn after we did, so the later is a likely scenario.
I started single player games on random maps as Hatshepsut and again Justinian, WB'ed in 2 cities and roads, and the trade routes were normal, so maybe this is some weird thing where the sandbox is corrupted somehow?
If this is some sort of PRO spilling into SPI, I'd ask lurkers to check whether scooter has a second city connected already. It would also affect PBEM78. Although with my SP tests it seems like it may not become a problem at all?
Lurkers - should I play on and report next turn what the TRs show, or halt the game? In the worst case I get 2 free commerce (and I'm fine with a reload in that case).
Your sandbox is from an older version of the mod. I saw the same thing in older versions of 1.4 and it was fixed subsequently. When PRO was discovered to not have its trade route bonus, I also noticed that other traits not PRO were getting a trade route bonus.
:
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but may have a short run at least before playing the next turn.
