Glad the RNG cooperated for the high-odds Great Merchant.
One other interesting thing about Kremlin whips, dunno if mentioned earlier, is that they don’t show up on the demographics, and can at this stage be understating your effective production by several hundred hammers per turn. This of course applies to normal slavery too, but that doesn’t hold a candle to Kremlin boosting with overflow.
(November 3rd, 2021, 15:58)El Grillo Wrote: Glad the RNG cooperated for the high-odds Great Merchant.
One other interesting thing about Kremlin whips, dunno if mentioned earlier, is that they don’t show up on the demographics, and can at this stage be understating your effective production by several hundred hammers per turn. This of course applies to normal slavery too, but that doesn’t hold a candle to Kremlin boosting with overflow.
Me too!
Great point, also. Yeah, the Kremlin makes weird demos. I'm pretty sure that already my food is inflated and my MFG is deflated compared to the reality. This turn, we whipped something like 2500 hammers, and next turn will be another 1000-ish. The last exception will be this GA, actually, since I'll swap to Serfdom for that (mostly for the commerce. We need to REALLY push in this one). But after that, the numbers are going to get weirder and weirder. Kremlin is easily the most fun wonder I've tried, it's really breathed life back into this game for me.
Notably, as you say the MFG numbers will be much more 'wrong' than the Food numbers. I really like anything that makes demos look worse than my real strength. I think deflated GNP is a significant positive to taking loans, for example. In PB58 (and this game), whipping a lot of buildings in the midgame made us look weaker than we were, but then our comeback had extra 'oomph' once it really started, and more importantly in PB58 people ignored us until it was too late.
T199
Golden Age time! I did all my whips for the turn, double-checked that, and then swapped civics. The new ones cost a lot more, but also do a lot more (Nationhood especially is totally pointless with Kremlin - so much for my Globe Theatre build ).
Old Civics
New Civics
Of course, the one city I forgot to whip was the granary whip.
Curiously, Thunderbolt went into unhappiness. It turns out the city has 11 whip/draft anger! I'd never noticed because it's always highly garrisoned. Luckily, this'll only last 2 turns before we can grow like a weed again.
I'm focusing a lot on my because it's what stands out, but the turn was good. I'll show demos for the T200 overview instead of now (also because we aren't 100% yet ). Happy note to end on: Oxford only takes 3 turns!
Here are the graphs of myself and my relevant neighbours (Mr. Cairo, and Superdeath + Tarkeel across the sea).
Food
MFG
GNP
Power
The Core
All of the banks we have are in this screenshot (about 10), as well as most of the universities. These cities are by far the strongest in commerce in the empire, thanks to getting better trade routes. They're also the cities that have castles, so they will lose some of that edge when we research corporation (which obsoletes both castles and GLH, in this mod). Unison has almost finished Oxford already, thanks to bureaucracy+levee+GA - that city went from hammer non-existent to amazing in about 3 turns. I am leaning towards building Wall Street in Hyperballad, because Unison already has 2 National Wonders. Unravel, our Moai island, will get West Point for 10EXP ships, and the Golden Age is the perfect time to build it. It will probably spam ships for the rest of the game, after that.
Pindicator's Land (ft. Naufragar's Nibbles)
In a Golden Age, and with Serdom, all of the mill tiles are completely absurd (even non-levee grass mills are 2/4/2 tiles, for example), so I'm using that to fund research. Once the economic buildings finish, many cities will hopefully build wealth. Mouth Mantra is especially notable for having completed Ironworks and a Levee - it's going to be our best hammer city from now on. I am trying to (belatedly) grow Constellation too, onto all of its levee-powered tiles. Globe Theatre was a dumb build there in retrospect, thanks to the Kremlin. I might still keep it as a hammer city long-term, but with whips instead of drafts. Thunderbolt is still a great city, and now at 60% culture feels like a pretty good fortress against the Ottomans. I might settle the next GG here (looks like Nauf already settled one?), for another city with 10EXP ships on the other side of the empire. That GG is far away, though.
Astro Island
I'm very grumpy about forgetting that granary whip. But otherwise, things look good. The eastern pair is the strongest area, with the western pair being quite under-developed. Only Broken gets a levee, and takes all the river tiles between itself and Lionsong; perhaps I should have considered levees more when placing the dotmap. Otherwise, these cities are contributing a lot of commerce, and will be able to whip considerable numbers of troops after the GA ends. Serfdom+Steam Power will hopefully see most of the remaining jungles cut down.
Demographics
I'm trying to savour these while I can, because this is probably the best they'll ever look.
I'm pretty sure Piccadilly is 1st in both MFG and GNP - he's not in a GA.
Financial Advisor
A lot of improvement here as well, in both trade and tiles (the last overview was on the tail-end of the 2nd GA, so is a semi-reasonable comparison). The biggest difference is a shitload of science buildings that have been, or are being, built. Additionally, some custom houses and many harbours, as well as more cities above size 10 for multipliers. The final difference that should happen for the finance advisor before the game ends is that I plan to overflow nearly every city like this, after the GA: Factory->Coal Plant->Bank. This is all assuming that Cairo doesn't cause trouble, of course. I'm thinking about taking a few more loans during the GA, which the banks would also help to repay.
Overall though, as the others research Corporation (which we've basically been playing most of the game with) and adopt their cottage civics, our Little Economic Miracle is probably coming to an end. It took longer than I was expecting, to be honest - I think we're very lucky that no one has closed borders with us.
Tech Screen
The clear leaders are Frozen and Piccadilly at this point. We have nearly caught up to Miguelito, who has slowed down a bit over these 25 turns, and we are ahead of Cairo and Civac now. I would not expect that to last forever, considering how short-term and whip-focused our economy is about to become. Poor Superdeath is hilariously behind: Frozen is building the Pentagon, while the Incans just mastered the Calendar.
Tech Path
Covered some of this before, but here is an update. Military Tradition will come this turn, for West Point and anti-Cairo cavalry. Then we'll get Railroad for defense and scant hammers (more if we replace windmills with mines - I'm not sure which are better). We'll put our economy into recession with Corporation en-route to Assembly Line, and then we'll take Combustion. Afterwards, it depends on what Great People start popping out. If we get a merchant, I would love to get Refrigeration and Cereal Mills. Otherwise, we might head for Artillery and Flight; airports might actually be quite good here, because of the multipliers I've already built.
Statistics Screen
Biology farms are great fun. Nearly 20 of the Observatories were built in the last 2 turns.
Espionage Screen
Cairo is going gangbusters with EP into me, which is part of why I'm still quite concerned about an attack. I'm putting just enough into him to maintain research visibility, while putting my spare into getting others' research paths, and in some interesting cases city-visibility. It's probably not as helpful as just getting that on Cairo, but fun takes precedent here. I want to see how everyone else is doing!
Future Plans
So last time, I wanted to invade Cairo with drafted infantry. The Kremlin means they'd be whipped instead, but fundamentally that shouldn't change the plan/goal. What has changed it is Cairo's increased strength - he absolutely steamrolled poor Naufragar.
I found Nauf's defense quite frustrating,but I don't think Nauf ever had a way to actually win the war. Janissaries seem really obnoxious to fight. Anyway, I could probably take an area or two off Cairo in an attack, but Police State + Slavery + Nationhood + Rifles + Aggressive is one heck of a nasty combo to invade. Aggressive also gets Barrage I on siege units now.
The other option is to head west.
No one on this island is remotely close to Cairo's strength. Donovan Zoi spent the last 25 turns researching Astro, while Tarkeel and Superdeath have amongst the fewest cities of the remaining players. The downside to this (relative to attacking Cairo) is that I still have to maintain a huge army on my other border, so my fighting force is cut drastically. However, there is one other con to attacking Cairo: afterwards I would neighbour Piccadilly, who might not co-operate with my "biggest empire possible" goal. Piccadilly is already ahead in tech, and the gap is only going to grow. I imagine he'd have little issue attacking me navally even if I did manage to completely kill Cairo. So I'm really not sure.
Here's a side-question I've been pondering: once I have railroads, are windmills or mines better with the Kremlin? 1/4/0 tiles are probably better than 2/2/1 in a normal case, but with a whipping economy I'm not sure if that's still true.
(November 7th, 2021, 15:14)naufragar Wrote: Very cool camera angles.
Hah, thanks. I only learnt the shortcut for flying camera recently, I feel like a toddler with a good toy. Plenty of fun to be had with it, even if the odds of using correctly are slim.
T201
I decided to bite the bullet and research Corporation->Assembly Line before Railroad. The reason I did this is that no one has researched Fascism yet, and I'm semi-confident I can get it first (ETA: 4 turns). But it's close, so I need to get it ASAP - Miguelito, Frozen, and Piccadilly are the competitors for it, and they're all ahead of me in tech. The general would be really helpful in Thunderbolt, where it would give me another city producing 10EXP (AKA Navigation II) ships.
In addition, I'm increasingly thinking that Police State could be better than Representation, and I only have the next 5 turns available for the swap. I made a big fuss about Rep specialists with Biology farms, but with the Kremlin and factories, that's probably quite stupid in retrospect. 101.25 (with Police State) hammers into an infantry/ship/machine gun seems a lot better than a 0/0/6 specialist, even with multipliers. Doubly-so if my goal is to conquer as much territory as possible with the turns remaining (my overly-ambitious goal is to take the whole western island ). That pre-GA Constitution research is extra silly now, but I suppose at least I thought of Police State before it was too late.
The timeline looks like this now:
T202: Corporation fin.
T204: Assembly Line fin.
T205: Fascism fin.
T206: Convert Police State/Vassalage/Slavery/Free Market/Organised Religion.
T207: Railroad fin. (and GA ends)
~T210: Combustion fin.
Since T175, there has been quite the culling. As predicted, once the strong had finished rebuilding, they were ready to squash the less-fortunate. We lost four players in the last 25 turns, with two more on death's door. 20+ cities has become the norm, rather than a sign of strength. I'm not sure at what point conquest becomes unprofitable in the big games, but we are definitely getting closer.
Global Graphs
Food
MFG
GNP
Power
Continents
As with my last attempt, consider this at worst an updated map of each island. The other players were kind enough to give a lot of map trades over the last few turns.
Island One
The eternal war might finally be reaching its conclusion, after some twists. Commodore (Lieu-Ye/Rome) is the biggest loser of the war, kicked off the mainland this turn. Donovan Zoi (Catherine/China) put in almost all of the work there, but only got about half the cities. He has spent the last 25 turns researching Astronomy, and is shockingly behind in tech at this point. City investigation reveals the answer: most of Donovan's cities have 10+ whip anger! Tarkeel (Hannibal/Egypt) has by far the best tech on the island, and has managed to snipe Commodore's entire north. He looked set to surprisingly win the continent, before a misguided attack on Superdeath (Charlemagne/Inca) left his army destroyed. Superdeath has the worst technology in the game, but rebuilds an increasingly obnoxious stack of catapults and knights; as Tarkeel found, he is no sitting duck. With Tarkeel massively ahead in tech, but Donovan Zoi having nearly double the land, this continent is fascinating to watch.
Island Two
Mr. Cairo (Genghis Khan/Ottomans) isn't messing around. Contrary to my expectations, he completely steamrolled poor Naufragar (Joao/India) in a matter of 10 turns, with drafted Aggressive janissaries. Cairo invested a lot into that war, but got huge rewards. His economy has been terrible for the last 25 turns, but now he is rapidly catching up to the middle-tier economic powers like Civac and myself, and may well surpass us with time. Meanwhile, Amicalola (Roosevelt/Ethiopia) opted to focus on the economy, rather than split Naufragar 50/50. I only got crumbs of The Village, and Mr. Cairo's army outclasses mine currently. However, I was able to build the Kremlin, which is even better than expected; it's a completely game-defining wonder! Cairo and I are pretty even, with him catching up in tech and me catching up in soldiers. Both of our armies are staring each other down nervously on the border, but I'm hoping we can stay peaceful.
Island Three
Piccadilly (Willem/Mali) has emerged as the strongest player, with monstrous demographics. Cornflakes (Pericles/Native America) was the perfect target for midgame aggression, with powerful wonders and little military to defend them. Piccadilly got more than half of Cornflakes' land, and has rapidly created the world's most powerful economy in both hammers and commerce. His neighbours are not overly-threatening, either. Ichabod (Hammurabi/Germany) also took some of Cornflakes, but was a bit slower. Additionally, Civac took their Astro island, and Ichabod looks much weaker than on T175, relatively speaking. Frozen (Victoria/Babylon) still has an incredible economy for 17 cities, but it is not enough - Piccadilly has surpassed them now, and the gap will only grow. Frozen has built many of the modern wonders (notably Statue of Liberty and likely Pentagon), and I am curious whether Piccadilly will try to claim them.
Island Four
These two are Piccadilly's main competition. Until recently, I thoughtMiguelito/Rusten (Pacal/France) were the clear favourites. But in the last 25 turns, they've seemingly faltered a little. Mig's GNP especially has been quite weak recently (significantly behind mine, for example). I'm not entirely sure why - perhaps losing the Colossus hurt awfully (like GLH is about to), or perhaps their eastern colonisation wasn't worth the effort. They have landed Mining Inc. and could possibly expand further east, so it isn't hopeless, but these guys have clearly lost their pre-eminence. Civac (Shaka/Sumeria) took Ichabod's astro island, but has otherwise stayed at peace. He's had great Food and Production all game, but has never been able to establish a tech lead. The lack of an economic trait must really suck. My other theory for this island is that these two have slowed each other down, a bit like Africa in the huge PB88; they have maintained enormous armies for ages.
Island Five
The northern war had precisely zero winners. Ramkhamhaeng (Cyrus/Arabia) was finally eliminated by Mjmd (Zara Yaqob/Portugal), who was himself colonised by Miguelito/Rusten to the west. Mjmd clings to life on the central and astro islands. Meanwhile, GeneralKilCavalry (Julius Caesar/Mongolia) was completely destroyed by a naval invasion from Lazteuq (Montezuma/Persia). Lazteuq has claimed much of Ramk's former land as well, and has a surprisingly high amount of land and cities. However, he is badly lacking infrastructure. Charriu (Ramesses/Greece) razed an Mjmd city that Miguelito had taken, but then swapped sides and sniped some of former-Portugal. His tech is much better than Lazteuq's, but with barely half the cities.
Amicalola's (Rough) Player Tier List
I would subjectively rank the relative strength and position of all players in this order.
Strong Contenders
1. Piccadilly/Flunky - Willem of Mali (Island 3). 41 cities.
Long-shot Contenders
2. Miguelito/Rusten - Pacal of France (Island 4). 51 cities.
3. Civac2 - Shaka of Sumeria (Island 4). 49 cities.
4. Amicalola - Roosevelt of Ethiopia (Island 2). 45 cities.
5. Mackoti Mr. Cairo - Genghis Khan of the Ottomans (Island 2). 45 cities.
Powerful/RelevantNon-Contenders
6. Frozen/Dullland - Victoria of Babylon (Island 3). 17 cities.
7. Ichabod - Hammurabi of Germany (Island 3). 22 cities.
8. Lazteuq - Montezuma of Persia (Island 5). 37 cities.
9. Tarkeel - Hannibal of Egypt (Island 1). 21 cities.
10. Charriu - Ramesses of Greece (Island 5). 21 cities.
11. TBS Donovan Zoi - Catherine of China (Island 1). 35 cities.
Dead Men Walking
12. Superdeath - Charlemagne of Inca (Island 1). 16 cities.
13. Mjmd - Zara Yaqob of Portugal (Island 5). 4 cities.
14. Commodore - Lieu-Ye of Rome (Island 1). 5 cities.
Eliminated
15. Naufragar - Joao of India (Island 2). Eliminated T195 by Mackoti Mr. Cairo.
16. Cornflakes - Pericles of Native America (Island 3). Eliminated T185 by Ichabod.
17. GeneralKilCavalry - Julius Caesar of Mongolia (Island 5). Eliminated T184 by Lazteuq.
18. Ramkamhaeng - Cyrus of Arabia (Island 5). Eliminated T179 by Mjmd.
19. Elkad - San Martin of England (Island 4). Eliminated T164 by Civac2.
20. Pindicator - Lincoln of the Netherlands (Island 2). Eliminated T148 by Naufragar.
21. Jowy - Kublai Khan of Byzantium (Island 3). Eliminated T143 by Piccadilly/Flunky.
22. Donovan Zoi - Sitting Bull of Spain (Island 4). Eliminated T142 by Miguelito/Rusten.
23. Mr. Cairo - Darius of the Aztecs (Island 2). Eliminated T141 by Mackoti Mr. Cairo
24. JoshyBravo963 - Asoka of America (Island 1). Eliminated T121 by Superdeath.
25. AutomatedTeller - Justinian of the Khmer (Island 4). Eliminated T116 by Civac2.
Still silly, still fun. Piccadilly has become the obvious favourite, with Miguelito/Rusten and Civac being the main challengers. I also put Cairo and myself in the 'longshot contender' tier, but that is quite a generous placement. Once again it was hard to decide who is stronger out of us two, but I decided that Kremlin was the tiebreaker. Otherwise, Ichabod and Donovan Zoi look notably worse than before, while Superdeath clings on to life. We are getting close to half the players eliminated; I hope I still have time to finally score an official kill before the game ends.
This overviews are so useful. I know it is sometimes hard to post this things when youa re unsure if someone is reading them. But be sure i am reading it and they are helping me to keep lurking this game!
I wish you luck with any decision you make! I hope you feel somehow my support!
(November 9th, 2021, 17:55)vanrober Wrote: This overviews are so useful. I know it is sometimes hard to post this things when youa re unsure if someone is reading them. But be sure i am reading it and they are helping me to keep lurking this game!
I wish you luck with any decision you make! I hope you feel somehow my support!
Thanks vanrober, I appreciate it.
In Empire news, Corporation hurt, but not quite as much as I was dreading. Looks like we'll just be able to squeeze Assembly Line -> Fascism in 1 turn each, instead of 2 for the former. Possibly need a couple of research builds for the latter, but that's still satisfying. Oxford for the win!
). 
). Happy note to end on: Oxford only takes 3 turns!
But otherwise, things look good. The eastern pair is the strongest area, with the western pair being quite under-developed. Only 
It took longer than I was expecting, to be honest - I think we're very lucky that no one has closed borders with us. 
Anyway, I could probably take an area or two off Cairo in an attack, but Police State + Slavery + Nationhood + Rifles + Aggressive is one heck of a nasty combo to invade. Aggressive also gets Barrage I on siege units now. 
). That pre-GA Constitution research is extra silly now, but I suppose at least I thought of Police State before it was too late. 
Piccadilly has become the obvious favourite, with Miguelito/Rusten and Civac being the main challengers. I also put Cairo and myself in the 'longshot contender' tier, but that is quite a generous placement. Once again it was hard to decide who is stronger out of us two, but I decided that Kremlin was the tiebreaker. Otherwise, Ichabod and Donovan Zoi look notably worse than before, while Superdeath clings on to life. We are getting close to half the players eliminated; I hope I still have time to finally score an official kill before the game ends.
