[PB59 Amicalola] The Vespertine Hour(s)

[Amicalola]

'Vespertine' - of, relating to, or occurring in the evening. 

Hello, I am Amicalola. I played one of the worst games of RB history in PB51, and have been doggedly trying to redeem myself ever since. This will be my thread for PB59, my first Big Pitboss. I am excited!

As to the thread title - I will be writing the reports for this game in the vespertine hour, when I am finished with my jobs for the day. More importantly, Bjork's Vespertine is a personal favourite, and will be my naming theme for this game (we'll need to think of a secondary theme if I get more than 12 cities). I'm not sure how much I'll talk about it in the actual reports, but at the very least, songs will be linked when appropriate, so you can listen along as the game progresses.

[Amicalola]

Well, my thread is at the bottom of the list, and that feels sad. So this is a short list of how I view the traits for this game. This is more organised by my desire to play with the trait, rather than my perception of the strength. Within each category, there is no set order. I guess the optimistic hope is to be offered a leader with traits from the latter-two categories.

Don't Want To Play  
Philosophical - I am not good enough to use this trait. One day, I'd love to take a deep dive into various bulb paths and use PHI to great effect, but I'm not quite ready for that yet. With that said, in the hands of a skilled player, I'd rank PHI as a very good trait.
Protective - I still haven't played with PRO, and I'd like to. I think it gets much worse in bigger games though, since it is much more likely that you can have trade routes with other players.

Would Mildly Consider Playing
Charismatic - I think Charismatic is a fun one to use, although it depends a lot on the map. I think it's good in longer games, as the XP bonus lasts longer and units get to higher levels. It is slow to start though, and is neither a great economic nor growth trait, so I don't think it's top tier. This is the closest trait to moving into the next category.
Creative - I think this trait is great! But I think it needs to be paired with a good economic bonus, which isn't very likely for me in this game, considering that I don't want FIN or PHI.
Industrious - The wonder bonus is nice, but in a huge game you probably need to just hyper-focus on 1 wonder, and still ignore the rest. Even then, there's a good chance someone else does it better. The forges are huge, but the primary benefit of the trait; I'm not convinced that makes IND better than mid-tier. I would love to play this on a smaller map though!
Financial - This trait has been nerfed a lot, and I also have played with it in both of my previous games (PB51 doesn't count ). I still think it's quite strong, especially in a long game like this one, but I want to try some new things.

Would Strongly Consider Playing
Expansive - Looks like a lot of fun to use. I am a huge supporter of early granaries, which are the reason I recovered after a bad start in 56. But I'm not sure this is very strong. Basically, it's the opposite of FIN; I would enjoy it, but I'm not convinced it's good.
Aggressive - I want to test the buffed version! I love passive bonuses, like the ones in ORG, and AGG fits that bill nicely now too. I'd also like to work on my combat skills, since they're definitely a weaker part of my game.This is a bit like EXP; I'm not convinced it's great, but I want to try it out.
Spiritual - I have the same problem as with PHI here, regarding the skillcap. But I love religion in this game, and cheap temples are great for pumping out a Shrine Prophet, or a bulb-CoL prophet. I would need to do a lot of research into how to abuse the civic swaps; I've heard Miguelito's 54 thread is great for that.

Would Love To Play 
Organised - I've been really, really impressed with ORG in PB58. The map is amazing for the trait there, but with Emperor difficulty, I think ORG will be strong in this game too, and I've also never directly played with it before.
Imperialistic - The cheap settlers aren't very good after T80. But they're just so powerful before then, and they get the ball rolling faster on everything else. Would also be nice if I fight a decent number of wars, to get the extra GGs.

[Lewwyn]

Your first Civ choice: Mongolia


Your first leader choices: Roosevelt, Fredrick


Starting screenshots will be posted in a couple days. You may wait to finalize a choice until then. You may reject or accept any of these choices. You will have a max of 2 more choices of civ and a max of 4 more leaders.

[Amicalola]

Really interesting choices, I'm torn between rejecting and keeping either. My top trait paired with two of my bottom ones. Mongolia I'd love to play, if only there were some Aggressive traits to go with it (not guaranteed). Thanks Lewwyn!

Edit: One other option that stands out, is using Roosevelt to grab GLH->Colossus. Way too many people to be guaranteed, but I need to keep working on my micro skills, and that's about as good an incentive as you can get.

The problem then is deciding a civ. The answer honestly might just be 'whichever has the best starting techs.' I think the odds of that being Mongolia are pretty darn low, and the odds of a HA rush are even lower. So Mongolia will probably end up being tossed back. But I need to see the start first, and I also need to decide whether the risk of getting Arabia or something is too scary. Anyway, Roosevelt into the coastal wonders could be a lot of fun! Coastal capital please Lewwyn.

Edit 2: My best guess is that if my start is landlocked, I'll take Mongolia and throw out the leaders. If we're coastal, we'll probably keep Roosevelt and throw out Mongolia.

[Lewwyn]

Here is the starting screenshot. Let me know when you've decided whether to lock in either the civ or leader or what you'd like to reroll. Confirm in the next two days please. I will be rerolling for everyone that rejects either civ or leader or both once I have all confirmations for this round of selections.

Your start:

[Amicalola]

Well, this is interesting.... So I will LOCK IN Roosevelt, but TOSS Mongolia. And I will say before anything else, thanks Lewwyn.

I don't see any way to talk myself out of Roosevelt and the Great Lighthouse. I love setting challenges like that, and it will also be a great exercise to tighten up my micro. But seriously, how can I not get excited about trying for a wonder rush in such a large game???

As for tossing Mongolia, obviously their uniques are not good for a peaceful IND/ORG strategy. But honestly it more comes down to the starting techs; if I'm trying for GLH in a 25 player game, I'm going to need all the help I can get. I don't see how Wheel and Hunting are very good starting techs here. Ideally, I want to research Agriculture, Hunting, Mining, Bronze Working and Fishing before anything else. Hunting is one of those, sure, but Wheel sucks. Furthermore, I would be ok with Agriculture/Fishing/Mining/Hunting. I think there are decent odds that I can get either two of those, or even just Mining by itself (which is better than Hunting/Agriculture because of the cost; technically this is true for Fishing too, but that feels less essential early so I am counting it as equal with the 40-cost techs). The main con to tossing is if I get a Myst+Wheel/Agri/Hunting civ, so hopefully they aren't tossed back? But everything else is equal or better, so I think it's worth the risk.

I guess the question is going to be whether it's better to settle on the Sugar or on the Plains hill (settling in place is almost certainly wrong?). While it will take considerable simming to figure it out, here are my first impressions. Plains hill is a better tile if all else is equal. However my hunch is that sugar is better here, for a few reasons. I should say, take all of this with a grain of salt; I am not exactly at the top of anyone's tier list. Anyway, reasons for sugar hunch:

1) I can delay AH by a significant extent, using the corn instead. That's huge when going for an early wonder that requires 2 out-of-the-way techs.
2) I can settle a great second or third city 1N of the ivory. This shares ivory and fish, grabs first-ring pigs, and is coastal for GLH trade routes. I expect to build the wonder after my 3rd city, so this would still give me time to connect copper.
3) Knocks out a jungle, so I don't have to deal with that.
4) Same number of forests, at 5. 

Of course, that could be wrong. I DEFINITELY need to sim this out (though I need to wait until I see the next civ option). But those are my first impressions.

[Amicalola]

So I should definitely be writing a paper right now, but I really can't be bothered so we're doing this instead. Here is every CIV, whether I would like them more or less than Mongolia, and whether they will be tossed or kept (probably). This is based slightly on unique items, but as I mentioned earlier I am far more concerned with starting techs. Even more so, now that the map is confirmed Huge.

Much Worse
Arabia
Byzantium
Celts
Inca
Spain

Worse
Aztecs
Babylon (5% food on a crap building is not good, it needs to be at least 10%. The current building is worse than a baray, and barays aren't exactly good either)
HRE
Maya

Same
France
Korea
Ottomans

Better
America
Dutch
Egypt
Ethiopia
Germany
Greece
India
Japan
Mali
Native America
Persia
Russia
Sumeria
Vikings
Zulu

Much Better
Carthage
China
England
Khmer
Portugal
Rome


Decent Chance to be Tossed Back
Arabia
Celts
Spain
Aztecs
Babylon
Maya
Korea
America
Dutch
Ethiopia
Germany
Japan
Native America
Persia
Russia
Sumeria
England
Portugal



So from this, you can see that my favoured starting techs for this start would be Fishing/Mining, followed by Hunting/Mining. On that list of 'tossed' civs, there are 6 Worse civs, 1 Equal civ, and 11 Better civs. But the odds are even better than that, as 9 civs will not have been offered yet, of which most are better or equal. So this has confirmed my suspicion to toss Mongolia. The second round will be trickier.

[Lewwyn]

You may choose to accept or reject again. After this you will have one more round if you reject. For civilizations. in the third round any civ twice rejected will be removed from the pool.

Second round choices:

Ethiopia

[Amicalola]

Hunting/Mining is about the best I could hope for; the only thing better would have been Fishing/Mining, and really the difference is tiny. Plus I think any Fishing/Mining civ would be picked by now. Ethiopia is the best of the Hunting/Mining civs that would be thrown back (picking Khmer is surely a no-brainer). Therefore, there are definitely more civs that are worse than better in the pool now.

Of course, Oromo Warriors and Steles are pretty likely to have zero impact, but so are a lot of UUs and UBs, so with techs this good I can't complain about that.

It's not very exciting, but it is solid. LOCK IN Ethiopia!

[Amicalola]

I've done some sims.

First I tried out whether settling on the sugar or the plains hill was better. Sugar seems to win pretty handily, mostly thanks to the two agriculture resources.

Then I tried a few starting tech routes to see which got out to the fastest start. It looks as though Agriculture->BW->Fishing->AH is the best way to go. The second city gets settled on T32, with a second worker out T38 and a 2nd settler out T42. Those numbers aren't amazing, but considering we have no expansion traits they're pretty good.

With the high food and low hammer terrain around us, plus a low happy cap, this feels like a great game to practice hitting 10 turn whip-cycles. The capital whips the settlers out T29 and T41, which isn't perfect but is pretty good. After T30 though, it depends a bit on where resources/players are, so the second isn't set in stone.

I'm still planning to check out a few other things, but those are the Official Baseline Numbers now.

(Side Note: We have a low happy cap, and being non-FIN we might want to watermill these rivers. Is this the game where Notre Dame SHINES?! )