Team Gaspar - how PBEM47 was lost and where it got us.

[zakalwe]

I also still prefer NE of the corn to the desert hill. Though settling on the copper is also an option. Corn in the first ring is very important, particularly since we can't borrow any strong food tiles from the capital. (I guess we could settle the hill and farm one of the first ring flood plains, but it sounds inferior.)

[NobleHelium]

I'd settle on the copper before I'd destroy a flood plain. But there's also 1e of the corn...

[Gaspar]

Alright, I started moving the northern warrior towards the site for the second city and am going to use to southern warrior to explore the area a bit. Maybe if there's some food to the west, we can plant 1E of the corn and 1W of the copper? We have a little bit of time to figure this out. Hopefully everyone else is keeping their warriors close to home as well and our best laid plans don't get broken by a wandering something out of the fog. Other than that, it was also the turn to revolt to Slavery, so we did that.







Seems like everyone took some vastly different approaches to the open - will be interesting to see what those were in the final analysis. Our die is cast at this point, though I think we're going to need to get creative post-Oracle. I'll think about that some and try and get some ideas for that into the thread over the next day or so - we have roughly 10 days to figure out what we're doing, from the turn pace.

[NobleHelium]

Are all of those water tiles freshwater? I.e. does the tile west of the south sheep have fresh water? The lakes are good in general assuming we land Colossus since they're coast without needing to build a lighthouse, but if we could lighthouse some of them that would be majorly yummy.

[Gaspar]

Noble and I chatting about the game:

NobleHelium: i was going to say something to you
but now i forgot
hmmmmmm
Gaspar: ?
NobleHelium: something to do with 47
Gaspar: im a little concerned
well 2 things
1. is there enough water to make this colossus play worth it?
NobleHelium: those lakes are good man
Gaspar: 2. and even if so, how long is it going to take us to actually settle a city capable of building it
NobleHelium: coast without needing to build lighthouse
is cool
well are you suggesting that you would delay oracle even more or somethin
Gaspar: no
die is cast
NobleHelium: you really should build the oracle
Gaspar: im just discussing
NobleHelium: ok
well even if colossus isn't super
mc is still a good tech
Gaspar: and i guess
colossus is pretty cheap with copper and ind
NobleHelium: cheap wonders are always good
because passive GPP is win
Gaspar: and you're going to build mints everywhere anyway
well passive gpp is good
but coastal wonders less so
well that fish site could probably bang gpp
and moai city will be big so could build other stuff
i dunno
i have this persistent fear
that the other guys are all going to be on 6 cities
NobleHelium: there is 0 reason to be fear of anything
because you're already the underdog
Gaspar: and we've got oracle and dickfist
NobleHelium: to be fearful of anything rather
it's like i reverted to chinese accent there
Gaspar: lol
anyway
so if we settle the 3rd city somewhere in the FPs
i think that means 4th has to be a northern intermediary city
and then 5th goes on the coast
unless theres coast by the sheep
NobleHelium: yeah
that's why i asked
whether that tile is fresh water or not
and that's why you need to stop being a chump and scout
Gaspar: im scouting now
NobleHelium: SCOUT FASTER
Gaspar: they're one movers ; ;
sheep is fresh water
hill is not though
so that must be coast S of sheep
hmm
a plant on the grassland forest
gets both lakes and coast then
NobleHelium: well the sheep is fresh water because we know the north lake is fresh
Gaspar: yes
NobleHelium: oh
i think we need to plant there then
that city will own
Gaspar: 3/0/4 is amazing
NobleHelium: and first ring sheep is not that bad
Gaspar: gets the corn in 2nd ring
which could be used to grow late
*later
hrm
i think we might just need to build a monastery in the 2nd city
NobleHelium: i thought you were going to
or in the cap
if you get a spread there
Gaspar: yeah, im just sort of trying to coalesce a plan
NobleHelium: see gaspar
all you need is me to call you a chump
Gaspar: no
NobleHelium: to get engaged with the game
Gaspar: i need someone to talk to me about the game to get engaged with the game :P
so basically
we finish oracle plan
plant the southern city
build a monastery in either cap or 2nd city
meh
be very hard to build colossus in that city on the glf
only one forest in bfc
NobleHelium: well let's see
we need a mint
Gaspar: yeah
NobleHelium: colossus is 250h
with 150% bonus
that's 100h base
math forest is 30h
Gaspar: uh
wrong speed
colossus is 167
math forest is 20
NobleHelium: fine whatever
Gaspar: well, it makes a difference
NobleHelium: so 67h base
47h left after the forest
Gaspar: 40h for mint
NobleHelium: mine and sheep is 5hpt
Gaspar: you factor the mint into the forest chop?
NobleHelium: oh yeah, no
so 42h after the forest
i guess we don't see any forests in the bleed huh
Gaspar: i think the stuff in the bleed is water
NobleHelium: send me the save
Gaspar: sent
NobleHelium: i think
the only other coast tile in the bfc
is the tile to the east of the water tile visible
south of the peak
the two tiles s and sw of the visible water tile are land
then the tile east of that is probably water but we can't see any of it
Gaspar: yeah, thats probably correct
NobleHelium: anyway
looks like no other forests
i think one of the options is like
settling 1W of the corn
although if you have another city there you kind of need the corn for that
i mean i think
Gaspar: well
NobleHelium: if you can get the corn and the sheep for the uber lake city
you can build colossus pretty fast with whipping
Gaspar: its really a matter of what else is out there
NobleHelium: yeah
Gaspar: gonna move to the desert hill
NobleHelium: so check west of the copper and corn
then come back around
Gaspar: which should tell us what we need to know
then loop back
yeah
NobleHelium: there's water
2W of the copper
it's a lake
Gaspar: yeah
NobleHelium: i dunno
Gaspar: fresh water
NobleHelium: this could be a pretty huge
lighthouse lake abuse game
Gaspar: yeah
NobleHelium: 1N of the spice gets another lake
Gaspar: lighthouse lakes are good even without colossus and fin
NobleHelium: there are lakes everywhere
Gaspar: all the food there is 2nd ring though
NobleHelium: it's like mirrorland except all the lakes are 1 tile
Gaspar: i guess the plan here
NobleHelium: i think novice is going to slow build his settler
Gaspar: we tech hunting > ah after oracle
NobleHelium: maybe he built 2 workers
and is building a settler now
with chops
or something
Gaspar: then fishing > sailing?
NobleHelium: THEN HE WHIPS 2 SETTLERS IN A ROW
ok anyways
Gaspar: lol
NobleHelium: yeah hunting > ah
i'm not sure you need sailing
yet
or fishing
unless the lake spot has seafood obviously
you could just go for writing and math
Gaspar: well
that would be my normal play
but i figure we're going to settle the northern coast soonish regardless
and if we're going to try and colossus done early
want lighthouse
NobleHelium: well you want a lighthouse
but not before colossus
Gaspar: well
yeah
NobleHelium: i mean
Gaspar: but if colossus is, say
T50
NobleHelium: i think you could take your time on colossus
Gaspar: you can
but the longer you wait
well anyway
NobleHelium: well if we can get to math before needing to chop that forest
it would be nice
Gaspar: yeah
NobleHelium: anyway i would just sim that
figure out whether you want to just whip the mint at size 4 and then go colossus
or granary then mint then colossus
Gaspar: thats probably the big question
NobleHelium: 1W of the corn may be the way to go regardless
and you can even chop that forest before settling
Gaspar: well
lets get some more scouting
NobleHelium: yeah
just thinking
Gaspar: but something like that will be the plan, yeah
NobleHelium: based upon the info we have so far
Gaspar: i mean
if we are building colossus
and theres any more saltwater in the area
NobleHelium: the oasis
is not an island
you can see that connects
the far north one
Gaspar: might want to settle to lighthouse the lake west of the deser hill
NobleHelium: still the PFH may be the best moai spot
Gaspar: yeah
I think
the tile NW of the clam
is probably an island
NobleHelium: maybe
that would bea good moai spot too
anyway i think the lake west of the copper
can be lighthoused by another city further west
Gaspar: well
lets not overstate how much land we have either
NobleHelium: right
basically right now
the fastest path to a good colossus
i see is settle west oft he corn
and sacrifice that city a bit
to let the good city use the corn some
do its whips and growths
then overflow into colossus
Gaspar: theres a few different options for dotmaps in the north
it might be best
to settle N of spice
NobleHelium: N of spice
2S of clam
Gaspar: then backfill for the banana later
NobleHelium: probably W of fish
yeah the banana isn't usable
and i see no reason to settle on it
since such a city doesn't claim anything
Gaspar: yeah
that peak
settling there would be decent
if it werent a peak
but anyway
best to just ignore the banana for now
i suppose we'll want IW semi early
NobleHelium: anyway
uber lake city
can easily be your NE city
Gaspar: since all the happy sources besides ivory are jungled
im actually a big fan of the lighthouse lake NE city
thats way off though
though I suppose
tech will go so fast here
we might want an unconventional tech path
i wonder where commodore stuck stone and marble
id bet
theres like a desert tile N of that oasis
with stone on it
thats very commodore
NobleHelium: jungled stone***
Gaspar: he wont have done that
too far away to matter here
NobleHelium: well the jungled stone was pretty far in the accelerated game
i forget the number
Gaspar: yeah, but that was mirrorland
he tends to prefer natural tile assignments
NobleHelium: he's definitely done a lot of jungled stone
he did it in 23
anyway
not very useful speculation
we definitely want to find another nonjungle happy if possible
Gaspar: yeah
mining happys would be good
NobleHelium: maybe even iw before currency
since we have those gems
Gaspar: yeha
if i have religion and IW before currency
the world might end
NobleHelium: i know
i forgot about happy constraints
so i think we probably skip the granary
in the colossus city
Gaspar: mint before granary
world is coming to end

SparkNotes if you're not interested in reading that:

• Some discussion on a dotmap - primarily that 1W of the sheep has a lot of potential, if 3/0/4 tiles are your thing.
  
• Might be worth a second city in the area to help get that city up to snuff.
  
• Probably want to expand north after that, though.
  
• Probably going to need to build a Monastery before we have time to tech OR, etc.
  
• Iron Working will be a priority with early Mints and those Gems.
  
• Some value in an unconventional tech path beyond that - Math will be key, though.
  

[Gaspar]

I haven't forgotten about Lewwyn's missing demos. I'll put something together tomorrow to aid C&D efforts.

[NobleHelium]

Forgot about the mint in the overall discount, so we're looking at 61h base before the forest. 41h base after the forest (I also messed up by multiplying by the mint again in the forest calculation, when that's already assumed by using base hammer count). So I guess the errors basically cancel and we get almost the same number.

[Gaspar]

Relatively quiet t21 - novice whipped his capital and Seven had a big score increase. Meh.

Microplan called for us working the FP over the Ivory so that's what we did, while Buttermaker and Engleberg went ahead started minechopping the hill W of Vieira. Starting warrior most of the way home en route to second city site (city is kind of a chump, so I think we'll go with Lauren, the least impressive first XI member of the Invincibles.)



More interesting news in the SW, as we make our way towards additional scouting info. MOAR FOOD:



I placed a red circle on the city site Noble and I talked about in gchat last night. There's several potential spots in the copper area but 1W of the corn looks pretty awesome as a city that can get going quickly, with all 3 resources first ring. I think there's pretty much no possibility beyond Hunting > AH after the Oracle tech path, clearly we're in Sheepland redux, as the Mayan colors portended. Fortunately, I'm saved from any ill-advised map trades because this is Always War. Interestingly, on paper I'm probably the worst player at the time in both games. If I eked out a draw here, I'd be pretty excited. I'm about 2" away from just naming the capital I Feel Fine and being done with it. (Is there anyone around who lurked PBEM14 or all these wisecracks falling on deaf ears?)

[Mardoc]

(Is there anyone around who lurked PBEM14 or all these wisecracks falling on deaf ears?)

I remember the anti Financial Jihad. Admittedly didn't remember your naming scheme, though.

[Gaspar]

Okay, long awaited "demos" post. I'm actually going to just dump the demos here in spoilers and then hopefully we can talk about them after. If I do it any other way, it won't get done, since this is a pain in the ass.

t0:

t1:

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t10:

t11:

t12:

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t14:

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t21: