NO PLAYERS- 53 reasons why i shouldnt make maps

[El Grillo]

It'll be interesting to see how players use their points with such rich yields, but only one early happiness resource. Someone claimed that half the players would lose the game on T0 based on inefficient point spend, with which I agree, and for the remainder I think it'll be a mad dash to the middle by the people who realize how important it is.

[Charriu]

Here are my comments:

The middle and other gernal overview stuff:

- That's a very juicy Great Person city 1S of the whale on the south-eastern island: 7 food resources in the BFC.
- There's a jungle on the wheat on the eastern side of the middle. Intended?
- Due to some players copper, they are more drawn towards the middle then others. (3, 5 and 6)
- Start 4 does not have a safe outside island like the others have, you could create one in the north- eastern corner, by remove that one grassland and making it into an island in the corner.
- Same for start 6
- Start 1s corner island is very safe, because no one else can reach it due to this being an isolated sea. Maybe move that copper tile 1E and the grassland tile 1SE of the aluminium 1N that way all outer sea are reachable by everybody.
-Start 5 has no access to marble and stone like the others have.

On to the actual screenshots:

Start 1:

- That's a very ugly river. Maybe instead of moving that river all the way to the inner sea, just let it flow from the NE tip of the wheat into that lake south of it. It's worth mentioning this gives the hill 1E of the lake a commerce. Also instead of letting the river start between aluminium and 1S of the settler, maybe let it start between the aluminium and 1E of the settler. At the bare minium please let the river flow naturally into the inner sea.

BFC contains.
- 4 food resources(!)
- 1 copper
- 1 ivory
- 8 forests
- 1 oasis in the BFC.

Start 2:
- Ugly river alarm in the east. Can easily look better with correct start and end points.
- Needs Animal Husbandry for food, but player is rewarded with a horse in their capital BFC. Keep that reward. Please check if this horse will be immediately connected into the trade network due to the lake. Better if it is not immediately connected.

BFC contains:
- 2.5 food resources (flooplain)
- 1 copper
- 1 horse
- 2 ivory
- 1 incense
- 8 forests

Start 3:
- Ugly river at the W of the NW aluminium
- Needs Animal Husbandry for food, but player is rewarded with a horse in their capital BFC. Keep that reward.

BFC contains:
- 1 food resource
- 1 copper
- 1 horse
- 1 ivory
- 1 incense
- 1 spice
- 1 dye
- 8 forests

Start 4:

- No ugly river here. Great job  

BFC contains:
- 3.5 food resources (3 floodplains)
- 1 incense (awesome tile)
- 1 spice
- 1 horse
- 3 annoying lake tiles
- 10 forests

Start 5:

BFC contains:
- 2 food resources
- 1 ivory
- 1 silk
- 1 incense
- 1 spice
- 15 forests(!)

Starts 6:

- 5.5 food resources (7 floodplains) (!)
- 1 ivory
- 1 forest(!)

All in all I find the quality of the different starting BFCs varies a lot. Start 1 is the clear winner for me, while start 3 is especially poor with its 1 food resource. You should have another look at those. If you need help with the rivers I can go over the map at the end and make them pretty.

[RefSteel]

Really no time at all, so I'll just say that I second pretty much everything Charriu says, and add that Start 5 seems to me to be a clear second-worst (even though it looks like you did at marble there from the latest screenshot) after poor Start 3.

[superdeath]

I think i fixed 99% of those issues. Those damn rivers are a pain i must say.... ANYWAY... Hopefully final edits:


Start 1:

 
Moved the copper and took out the sheep. fish + riverside corn should be equal to the other starts imo.

Start 2:

 
Advanced start lake-fish + grass cow imo equals the previous riverside corn/coastal fish.  At least when you include the northern floodplains into the mix..

Start 3:

 
I think i might remove the sheep... Unless lurkers think that it needs it to compete? If no one objects, it will be deleted on my final run-thru..

Start 4:

 
Has to go farther for their ivory to make up for their slightly better start. Thoughts?

Start 5:

 
Upgraded from the last start 5 screenshot... right?

Start 6:

 
Dry corn + pigs + amount of floodplains = one of the better starts, but requires alot of worker labor? Idk what to think about this one. It has alot less forests to also make up for the floodplain #? I THINK it balances out that way, but its not like i havent been wrong before..

IF someone can help me easily swap between the AI's  on this save so i can take screenshots by just swapping to them.... that would be GREAT. As it stands, i can only currently do that for Start 1.. Also does everyone want to start with an archer as well? Hmm.... might have to delete all those before hand if not. ( i had added one to Start 1 as well just in case )

[superdeath]

Bah, forgot to swap start 2's hill to a PH that will be done before screenshots are sent out..

[superdeath]

FINAL VERSION: ( unless MAJOR mistakes )

 

[Old Harry]

Once you've typed chipotle alt+z switches civ.

[superdeath]

500 start budget with Small/Monarch for tech costs?

Also to confirm, we are deleting the starting settler and scout?

Sounds right on the start budget and deletion. The standard settings for Small is 540 points, but Monarch normally takes that down to like 480-something. 500 seems like a nice round number to go with.


Can we get some precise confirmations on the map settings so we can make an accurate sandbox? Either that, or can we use the sandbox creation tool to get one made for us that is tech cost accurate?

Would this be what they are asking for?


And i hope everything that they want is there or Can be changed...

I couldnt seem to create an Advanced Start map and enter World builder without everything becoming screwy... so i hope that isnt an issue. ( planning on just taking into account what each player wants, then just editing the map file before sending it to ramk.. )

[Charriu]

That should be enough for now. Don't worry about the Advanced start Ramk and others me included know some tricks to get it working

[GeneralKilCavalry]

Reading these threads has successfully reminded me why I never play advanced start - too much confusing and too much micro to work out.