[SPOILERS]Acrid Pinot and other Pindicator anagrams

[NobleHelium]

Yes, ziggurats are like a faux-ORG. Just as terraces are faux-CRE. Sure, it's not as strong, but you get Agriculture/Wheel and it's not penalized or banned like Inca often is.

[pindicator]

Yes, ziggurats are like a faux-ORG. Just as terraces are faux-CRE. Sure, it's not as strong, but you get Agriculture/Wheel and it's not penalized or banned like Inca often is.

Yeah, but the I think best part about ORG in this map is the maintenance reduction and the double speed on lighthouses. Double speed courthouses? It's ok, but not my fav part about ORG

Anyway, it seems pretty obvious we should pick Hannibal (FIN/CHA) or Victoria (FIN/IMP) if they are available, just because they are good with so many of the other civs I highlighted as being intereted in playing. Otherwise look back on the brainstorm list.

[NobleHelium]

You mean the civic reduction? That generally pales in comparison to the city maintenance reduction, because most of the maintenance comes from spamming cities and not overall population (which is what civic maintenance is based on).

[SevenSpirits]

You mean the civic reduction? That generally pales in comparison to the city maintenance reduction, because most of the maintenance comes from spamming cities and not overall population (which is what civic maintenance is based on).

Actually, in my experience civic upkeep is maybe 50-80% as high as total city upkeep. But more importantly, ORG doesn't give you free courthouses on turn 0. It gives you free half-courthouses at the time you get around to building the other half of them. The civic maintenance reduction is worth a ton - I think it's about half as good as being FIN, by itself. It's surely more than half the value of ORG.

[NobleHelium]

This is the slowest pick process I have ever seen.

[pindicator]

Seven's got me tempted to pick ORG, I have to admit.

[NobleHelium]

DONT DO IT PICK FIN!!!111

[pindicator]

Don't worry, I'm not seriously considering ORG this game. If we had coast in sight of the start I probably would. ORG/IND would be a lock for Great Lighthouse, but I played FDR last time I played a water heavy map, so he's out of consideration.


Rego just picked Isabella (SPI/EXP). Another strong leader. That means the drafting has gone:

Scooter - __________ of Carthage
Ruff_hi - Sury of __________
Regoarrarr - Isabella of __________
Ichabod - __________ of __________
Pindicator -

That leaves 2 leaders and 3 civilizations left to be picked ahead of us. I think it's very likely one of the FIN/CHA or FIN/IMP is available for our 2nd pick. This makes me want to pick our civ first. And it makes me seriously start to ponder someone like India (CHA/IND?), the Dutch (EXP/IMP?), or Byzantium (EXP/IND?). But Sumeria is still my top Agri/Wheel choice.

Note that Ruff & Rego (Rough & Ready?) spent all their points on leader traits. So they are going to need to pick a non-Agriculture civ. Any predictions on what they will go for? Rego likes starting techs, which really makes me wonder why he didn't leave a point open for an agriculture leader. I don't know Ichabod well enough to say if he values starting techs over UU/UB for civilizations, but I think there's good odds we have the only Agri/Wheel combination, which means a quicker start than most people. Okay, if we're the only one going Agri/Wheel then Sumeria starts to seem a lot less stale a choice.

So which do you think is better to pick first? Do we pick Sumeria first and leave open the choice of reacting to other people's leader picks? Or do we pick FIN/IMP or FIN/CHA first and leave ourselves the option of reacting to other people's civilization picks? I'm tempted to pick Sumeria first and leave open the possibility of taking IND if nobody else picks an IND leader (and then targeting Oracle -> MC and Colossus)

[NobleHelium]

If Ichabod also picks a 5 point leader then nobody can pick Sumeria, so I don't see a need to pick it if that's what we want (or any other Agriculture civ). I guess your main point is just delaying the leader pick until we see whether anyone is taking IND. But IND not being taken also increases the chances of scooter picking it. I don't know, but my instinct is that I want a FIN leader given how much riverside grassland is available at the start and the fact that you rarely see FIN leaders available. Early wonders are always an iffy prospect, both in the potential to lose them and in the potential to pay too much to get them. Without FIN, Pyramids are going to look attractive too and that is well into "not this again" territory for me.

[NobleHelium]

Oh, did not see that Ichabod took India. Well I think that makes any wonder-related gameplan considerably less attractive.