Kyan + Refsteel = Peter + India. Clearly. [SPOILERS]

[Kyan]

Aloha all, sorry for it being quiet in here. Not too much exciting has happened. Well, not entirely true. We landed buddhism in The Globe.

All units are named- we wouldn't want anyone stumbling across unnamed units now would we??

We now have 3 workers and 1 chop into a settler. Warrior 2 is heading to Ephesus site and everything else is pretty much as per Ref's plan above. No contact yet and judging by the post counts of other threads- i guess nobody has met yet. Normally you'd expect a flurry upon first contact. This is leading me to heavily consider the face we're alone on seperate islands. This wouldn't work out bad for us at all as it means we should have only barbs to deal with for a fair while!

[RefSteel]

All units are named- we wouldn't want anyone stumbling across unnamed units now would we??

No, indeed - that would be most tragic! Thanks, Kyan!

I'll try to provide some more ideas or comments (and/or gratuitous images of what's going on in the empire for our lurkers) when I get back home (I'm currently on the road, and my laptop battery is about to run out)

For now, though ... Happy New Year!!!

[Kyan]

Hey dudes, dudettes and Krill!

Just letting you know, in case you were worried, how the Indian Empire is doing. Short answer: pretty damn good.

See for yourself:



This is before i pressed end turn. Priesthood in at end of turn. Road is already complete to city site 2 which is founded next turn. Workers will then chop out Oracle whilst we tech pottery (3 turns). After pottery, i think we have to go Animal Husbandry to help out Ephesus and locate horses and then onto Writing and Maths.

I'm considering mining the gold tile before chopping Oracle though. This has the advantage of letting The Globe grow to size 3 and getting us out a larger worker army. If we *do* go this route though, the new warrior is going to have to stay home and play babysitter. It's a tough call. Do we go out and try find people and slightly hinder maximum growth OR do we grow like a weed and hope that by the time we do find people- the whole world isn't already aligned against us. I'm inclined for the second option and try talk us out of any issues when/if we come across them.

[RefSteel]

Cool beans. I must say, coming up with cool screenies for this stage in the game is difficult with such a long way to go before we can explore anything new.

Also: Sorry I've been away for so long. I'm afraid my internet connectivity will continue to be spotty or worse for the next week or two.

After pottery, i think we have to go Animal Husbandry to help out Ephesus and locate horses and then onto Writing and Maths.

Yep - this sounds like sense to me.

This has the advantage of letting The Globe grow to size 3

I assume you mean size 6? Unless you're planning on a LOT of whipping in the very near future.... It would give us a third improved tile to work of course, but I'd stick with the oasis and unimproved sugars until we hit our happy cap anyway, I think. We could certainly use more workers - I'd like to get the gems roaded and the copper hooked ASAP - but I'm not sure if that's in keeping with our overall strategy. (On a related note: Where/when do you think we should found our third city?)

I notice we're neither Buddhist nor slave-drivers yet. Depending on how the hammers come out, both of these things can probably wait until after Oracle completes (hopefully when our next Settler is on the move). (Slavery is an interesting question; with Fast Workers and Arbitrary Numbers of Forests, we might not even need it, and can wait until we have something else worthwhile to adopt, like OR and/or Bureau....)

More importantly: More names!

Our unnamed Worker can be Titania; the next few will be lesser fay folk though: Peaseblossom, Cobweb, Moth, and Mustardseed.

The warrior hanging out in Ephesus should probably be Aegeon, the first character to speak in Comedy of Errors. He came from afar(ish) and might be searching for someone if we send another warrior down there to take his place. (This would save 1-2 turns of scouting as we move him toward the southeast, since Ephesus is already in that direction.) If we do this, the warrior who comes down to relieve him can be Solinus, the Duke of Ephesus.

The north-bound warrior should be Antigonus, I think. Does he have a destination in mind?

[RefSteel]

Okay, one other thing before I go: Let's talk a bit about this map.

(Warning: Pics to follow which do not come from this actual game. [EDIT: And All comments about Impis are based on not paying attention, as this game - though it does feature Shaka - has no Zulus in it. But I like 'em anyway, and I posted 'em ages ago, so they're staying.])

We (the players at large) told Ruff we wanted some elbow room, but not so much that war was totally impossible. And he played in RBP3, in which (thanks to Emperor difficulty and an unusually small, square, toroidal "Huge" map) maintenance costs made conquest a recipe for economic disaster. So, I think he wanted to make sure that wouldn't be the case here.

That may not be right though - because if so, there's a bit of a problem: The combination of Prince difficulty, Quick speed, and a "Duel" map size mean tech rate is going to be ridiculous, particularly with all the financial leaders in this game (and us philosophical types do have some leverage of our own to use). What's more, with all the forests in the way, any army that anyone tries to muster is going to be obsolete on arrival. By the time they slog thr... what? What's that you say? Someone to see me? But I wasn't expecting anybody!



But that's Mr. Impi! He lives way off on the other side of the forest! Why did you ... hey ... what's that little crossed-arrows-looking thing in the lower left over there?



Aiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Y'see, those 2-move Zulu Impis start with Mobility, which means they're fast-movers who can ignore forests! (Also, the ones in this game are the Aggressive kind, which means they can jump out of cheap Ikhandas with Combat 1 plus any number of joyous things like City Raider or Shock or Cover or Combat 2, or even just Woody 1 (terrific for choking on a map like this one). They might even meet some barbs to kill en route, and nab even sillier promotions. Now, fortunately, axes eat even Shock Impis for breakfast, and they still have to cross the distance between civs (though two tiles at a time). And they do require copper, and it's going to be a while before the Zulus (or anyone else) know where we are. But mounted units (like Cataphracts) can get mobility too if they can get up to 10xp, and of course forests don't get in the way once they're chopped down or roaded through.

The point is, there will be opportunities for war on this map. They'll come when civs have settled toward each other, over roads built for trade routes (no rivers or coast in sight yet!) or through cleared territory where borders meet. They'll come through the forests, in the form of units promoted to Woody II. (Just 5 xp: Barracks plus Vassalage or Theo. This is another reason that chopping forests is a Good Thing[tm] - in fact, it may prevent certain forks instead of allowing them!) And when the war is over, the conqueror can hold the new-claimed land ... without suffering complete economic meltdown.

Ruff does tend to know what he's doing, you know.

[Kyan]

Cool beans. I must say, coming up with cool screenies for this stage in the game is difficult with such a long way to go before we can explore anything new.

Yeah, this is the main issue. I intend to keep this thread up to date with reporting but i don't want to bore people senseless. If there's nothing worth reporting, i'd rather just wait than ramble on. Otherwise, with your sporadic internet, i'll end up 'pulling a Whosit' and going crazy paranoid

Also: Sorry I've been away for so long. I'm afraid my internet connectivity will continue to be spotty or worse for the next week or two.

Why are you sorry? Last i checked, you signed up as a Ded Lurker. This isn't pitboss 3 again hehe. I'll keep things going and you can be as involved or not involved as a) you're willing to be and b) your time allows.

I assume you mean size 6? Unless you're planning on a LOT of whipping in the very near future.... It would give us a third improved tile to work of course, but I'd stick with the oasis and unimproved sugars until we hit our happy cap anyway, I think. We could certainly use more workers

I did actually mean size 3- for now. I'm getting out worker 4 asap and 5 won't be too far behind. I also want another settler in very short order.

Hopefully this shows why i think size 3 is good for workers for now. Working the three improved tiles and including the city centre plains hill bonus puts us at 8 hammers base netting 2 further free hammers towards the worker. With a food surplus pouring in also, we can get them out in quick order.

However, after completing Mustardseed (which for some reason, i think is a brilliant name), what would you advise next? We need to grow to encompass the oasis and sugars but building what? More warriors? I don't like the sound of warriors as they're fairly dead hammers. I'd prefer a granary- this isn't FFH, we can get away with bugger all military.

I'd like to get the gems roaded and the copper hooked ASAP - but I'm not sure if that's in keeping with our overall strategy.

I totally agree. Mustardseed's job is exactly this. I'm thinking Antigonus can provide some cover in this area as barb warriors are probably not far off at all. We haven't seen a single barbarian unit at all yet!

I'm thinking of using Mustardseed to chop/road en-route to the copper. All chops will go into worker 5 whilst growing building the granary otherwise (swapping over for the turns that chops come in).

(On a related note: Where/when do you think we should found our third city?)

Undecided currently. I think we should be founding the best possible sites first and am leaning towards the copper location with 2 food. This has the added advantage that roading will have already begun in this direction hooking up the copper. The western-bound warrior is going to fogbust/scout over in that direction as there's a potentially nice city site with 3 food over there.

I notice we're neither Buddhist nor slave-drivers yet. Depending on how the hammers come out, both of these things can probably wait until after Oracle completes (hopefully when our next Settler is on the move). (Slavery is an interesting question; with Fast Workers and Arbitrary Numbers of Forests, we might not even need it, and can wait until we have something else worthwhile to adopt, like OR and/or Bureau....)

This is a mistake on my part. I made my usual mistake of not revolting whilst settler was en-route to found city 2. Do you really think we should skip slavery? It's extremely advantageous. However, i've never played on a map of this type before, let alone with expansinve fast workers. I really don't know whats best here

Names are all sorted except the Western bound warrior who i have named 'Bottom' as a placeholder :neenernee

Demographics show that we're the first to two cities:



Using landsize, i can only assume we were first to found city two which is juts showing the power of fast workers on this map as we've had Ephesus for a couple of turns before this screenshot and we didn't push for a particularly fast settler.

[Kyan]

Hmm, very interesting thoughts about the map. I may steal particular sections for diplo. It won't be anytime soon that war is going to be effective at all. So, we have a builders game on our hands for now with mass-forests and expansive India...

No pressure at all to win right there

My job for now then, when we meet someone, is to convince them of this. It shouldn't be too hard to do as i genuinely believe that warfare would be stupid for the aggressor right now. Us chopping our land free of forests will also have the added dis-incentive that there is no defensive terrain for aggressors to utilise. Must remember to mention that when the time comes. If i were one of the other players, i'd be working my arse off to convince at least one other person to attack us. Even if its just placing a few choking units in whatever forests remain, they'll prove a pain in the arse. Let's hope we can prevent this!

[RefSteel]

i'll end up 'pulling a Whosit' and going crazy paranoid

<Giggles madly with wildly rolling eyes.> Why, whatever are you talking about? How could that happen to the likes of us?

Why are you sorry?

I dunno. Maybe working off excess guilt for the Nitrogen Bomb I chucked in the open window of the girls' locker room back when I was in junior high. (Important Note for the Humor Impaired: The preceding is a lie. In fact, there is no such thing as a Nitrogen Bomb to my knowledge, although I'm imagining something like a gas grenade loaded with nitrous oxide, which would probably have had approximately zero noticable effect on a group of junior high school girls in my town, but that's not the point.) Anyway, clearly it's a failing. I think it has something to do with my mother. Y'see, she failed so utterly to be rotten or mean to me in any way that I'm completely unable to blame my various forms of madness on her. Have you any idea what that does to a person's self-esteem?

Last i checked, you signed up as a Ded Lurker. This isn't pitboss 3 again hehe. I'll keep things going and you can be as involved or not involved as a) you're willing to be and b) your time allows.

Naturally - and thanks for reitterating this Very Important Point. (Well, anyway, it's important to what I perhaps-too-glibly refer to as my sanity.) Nevertheless, I'd like to maintain at least enough of a presence to keep our post-count deficit a bit smaller than our in-game lead!

Oh, right - the game! Kyan's quotes in white, my comments in blue-green.

However, after completing Mustardseed (which for some reason, i think is a brilliant name) I don't know why either, and I'm kind of partial to Cobweb as well, but yes, I adore the name Mustardseed. what would you advise next? We need to grow to encompass the oasis and sugars but building what? More warriors? No. I don't like the sound of warriors Me neither. as they're fairly dead hammers. Just so. I'd prefer a granary Me too.

Specifically (well, depending on the food level and the number of hammers already in the granary - I don't have the game open in front of me right now - but probably) I would complete a granary ASAP, even chopping into it (remember, hammers put into a granary are doubled for us expansive types) even though that delays the next worker. After that, we can put hammers-while-growing into a Buddhist Monastery, which will increase our research rate slightly, and allow us to build Missionaries for our other cities, which will speed their development significantly. (Unless we'll be in OR soon enough that we can build 'em anyway....) Otherwise, the plan sounds good. Of course, once Writing hits, we'll want to get a library started, presumably....

Do you really think we should skip slavery?

Skip? No. Delay? Maybe. If my calculations are correct, we should be able to make up to four civic changes in a single turn, even with several cities planted. If this is the case, and we continue to have no contact with potential enemies, and we have no special plans to actually whip anything, it might be worth waiting until we have other useful techs - for instance, depending on tech path, we might swap into Bureau and Slavery at the same time, or jump directly from Default Civics to HR/OR/Slavery.

Names are all sorted except the Western bound warrior who i have named 'Bottom' as a placeholder

Heheh. I was thinking Bottom and friends would be Fworkers when we ran out of named fairies, but the name can stick with the warrior if you prefer. My preference might be for Dion - even though he's going in the wrong direction - because the timing is auspicious: He's one of the two lords (with Cleomenes) sent away to the isle of Apollo in The Winter's Tale ... to hear the Oracle.

[RefSteel]

One last note: If our next city is indeed the copper/forestphants/sheep/pigs spot, we absolutely MUST call it Bohemia, since it's just north of the ice tile.

And I would definitely build a granary next, probably even working the improved tiles until it's finished. It should be noted that if we're quick enough about getting our next Settler out, and Mustardseed roads before mining and then mines the copper directly (i.e. chopping simultaneously instead of first) we might be able to get the chop hammers into Bohemia at full strength instead of into The Globe at a discount.

[T-hawk]

Bohemia! But I am guessing it's not my hometown ?