[PB 55] Miguelito and Mjmd help Amicalola avoid a repetition of last time

[Mjmd]

The best way to even out against better tech and units is just MORE CATAPULTS!!!! Please never bombard except if it is with EXTRA cats. Figure out how many are going to go into the grindstone and the rest can bombard. If he is just building longbows you can HEAVILY weight your stack to cats.

Also, as a reminder you'll need a defensive stack up north in however many turns peace expires. Although I suspect Lewyyn would take opportunity to finish off SD, so possible you play risky.

Literally the best reason to go after anyone is always if you can get a 2v1, so now when you think you can get one against Jowy is the right time to attack Jowy. Before it was correct to go attack Lewwyn as it was a 2v1 and weaker empire than Civac.

[Amicalola]

Hmmm, I'll emphasise catapults more than I have been I guess. I have also built/switched a few cities to swords, since as Miguelito says they will sometimes be better than elephants depending on what Jowy has built. Finally, a couple of cities are going to whip pikes next turn or the turn after to protect against future Jowy knights in our stack(s).

Using our two production cities to build mostly defensive units for the north, while units are otherwise being sent to the south. I am playing pretty risky re: Lewwyn and Civac borders, since that's the only way I can see us making progress against Jowy. I think Civac is more likely to go for round 2 with Gav than fight us, and Lewwyn is the same with SD. We are probably the 3rd strongest empire in the game realistically, though close with Commodore and Lewwyn so maybe 4th, since we have less units but many, many, forges. I am loving the efficient whips that forges allow.

We attack in two turns!! Pictures to come next turn!

Also, GA coming in 4 turns. Going to revolt to OR, HR, and Vassalage. May consider mercantilism if we reach banking by the end, which i think is likely. Would it be worth teching Theology and instead revolting to Theocracy? Then our units would have double promos without a barracks (4/8 EXP), and 7/8 EXP with a barracks. Thoughts???

[Mjmd]

Ya engineering over guilds hurts here as knights would be great to build to beat longbows post cat saccing.

Sad having to whip during a GA, but you probably should do 2 rounds now and then regrow during. Mig thoughts?

As a reminder you can wait to switch to OR at end of golden age to save on costs. Not sure how many of the buildings you have in queue you plan on whipping though.


I would say tech guilds because better units are better than better promotions.

A lot will depend on Commodore. I like that from the sounds of those diplo messages he is attacking first, so you can always just not if he doesn't commit. Might be worth moving scout down to see what he is invading with before you go in (you can also then follow his stack). Mind knowing what Jowy has and where is also important. I would start signing up everything lol.

[Miguelito]

I understood theology for after guilds/ banking? For that I think it makes sense imo, if you expect to be building rather units than buildings before the 2nd GA. I am really not up to date, but my impression has been that we have a lot of infra already? For Banks the OR bonus is negligible.

[Amicalola]

That was more my thinking, yeah, Miguelito (after Guilds/Banking). That way we grow our cities and build any buildings necessary during (mostly banks; we already have plenty of everything else) and go for a second round of units at the end. That does assume that my two rounds of whips will be enough vs Jowy, which remains to be seen.

I've been moving the scout around, but haven't found a Commodore stack yet (it's at least not directly on the border, but of course it wouldn't be) or Jowy's defensive stack. His power has gone up a lot in the last 5 turns, so I thought it would be somewhere, but it's also possible he's splitting longbows between cities to make them as obnoxious to take as possible.

[Amicalola]

T138

So, here is the stack on the turn before the war. 



In total there are 43 units, or 47 next turn:
- 14 Catapults
- 7 Axemen
- 3 Swordsmen
- 9 War Elephants
- 3 Crossbows
- 3 Chariots
- 4 Spearmen
- 1 Pikeman (produced EoT)
- 1 Medic Chariot + 1 Sentry Chariot (on the way)
- 1 Horse Archer (on the way)

We are going to do either 1 or 2 whips per city in basically every city other than the islands. These will occur next turn or the turn afterwards in pretty much every case. 

Here is Jowy's cities:



They have similar garrisons (replace 'Chu Chulainn' the maceman with an archer and they are identical). Not a huge garrison yet, but he will have 2 turns to prepare with whips and movement from other fronts. Expecting 8-10 units per city(ish). 

Depending on what is in Jowy's two cities next turn, I may split the stack into 2 and hit both cities. I will need to do some sims upon seeing his garrisons though. These longbows will be incredibly obnoxious to crack, so bombarding MAY be acceptable. I briefly considered upgrading a spear to a pike, but my understanding is that upgrading is super inefficient and should be avoided if possible. Is that right?



We can launch our GA in 3 turns. Basically, my thinking is we grow and tech to banks during it, whip a bank everywhere we can at the end, and then go back to building units in Vassalage. Alternatively, we could wait a while to trigger it until our cities are bigger again?  If we launch the GA in 3 turns as I am expecting, I am not sure whether I should go double-specialist in the two specialist cities to get to our second one ASAP. It wouldn't be instantly afterwards, but we could get a large portion of the way there, I would think. Thoughts???

ALSO: are trebuchets any good? I think I asked this before, but can't remember if there was an answer. 

Lewwyn is clearly using his peace to build, as he launched a GA this turn and converted to Buddhism/OR. If he spreads it we make money, so at least there is some upside here?

[Miguelito]

My understanding is that trebuchets are better against cities, while catapults are better in open field. So for Jowy trebs could be ideal.

Splitting the stack seems quite daring.

Are you intending to keep or raze the border cities? After that comes the cap, right?

I'd definitely recommend to start growing 2 specialists during the GA. Shouldn't matter if they don't quite finish, as they won't depend on caste anyways (I'm not sure, are we taking caste during GA or not?).

[Amicalola]

My understanding is that trebuchets are better against cities, while catapults are better in open field. So for Jowy trebs could be ideal.

Splitting the stack seems quite daring.

Are you intending to keep or raze the border cities? After that comes the cap, right?

I'd definitely recommend to start growing 2 specialists during the GA. Shouldn't matter if they don't quite finish, as they won't depend on caste anyways (I'm not sure, are we taking caste during GA or not?).

I've switched to trebs in about 5 cities to whip before the GA. They won't be ready for the first attack, but many will be for the 2nd or 3rd cities. 

Splitting the stack depends on some sims, like I said. It also depends on how much Jowy's power grows oer the next 2 turns, since that determines his counter-attack potential. 

I was thinking keep the border cities. Either the war is a failure and Civac wins (doesn't matter if Jowy recaptures) or it is a success and then we would be very glad to keep them. And yep! My thinking is basically that we go clockwise across the 3 borders cities (Elementary -> Cursed Crater -> Fire Spear) and then hit the cap. We could skip Fire Spear if that makes a capital capture more likely. This would be the plan regardless of whether the stack is split, I think.

Specialist cities will no longer be whipped.  Both are growing on about 11-2 food, so we should be able to run a lot of specialists.

[Mjmd]

Yes for specialists during golden age. You'll be glad you did later. You could do some accuracy cats if you can and then throw the rest in. Does he have castles? Giving more time for a human opponent to react is almost never correct. See PB52 Jowy bombarding with a superior army vs Charriu. Gave Charriu time to assemble his own counter force and drive Jowy back. Your going against an opponent with a tech lead, admittedly with a 2v1 which helps. 

I briefly considered upgrading a spear to a pike, but my understanding is that upgrading is super inefficient and should be avoided if possible. Is that right?

It is inefficient, that doesn't mean it isn't right if you think you need. Do you have any formation (hopefully remembering name right) elephants. Do you see knights / know he has guilds?

I like keeping all the cities. Are you going to stop after capital and let Commodore conquer the rest? Probably wise as you'll have Lewyyn to worry about. Seems like a natural north south divide. I'm just assuming everything will go well of course!

[Amicalola]

I'm not 100% sure why but while I was cleaning and recovering from NYE this afternoon (cleaning is the best hangover task imo) I was thinking about that time when we sent two chariots against Lewwyn's capital wayyy back when. The only reason that the capital survived was that an axe happened to finish on the same turn as we attacked (call it 1/4 chance?). But imagine how different this game would have been if we'd attacked 1 turn later or earlier, and razed that.

Maybe us and Lewwyn would have ground each other down to be weak. Maybe we and SD partition him early when catapults are unlocked. Maybe SD would have risen to be the dominant power!