[SPOILERS] Dip4 Turkish Delight: scooter dies first

[NobleHelium]

No, but it could have been disbanded. I think 48 hours for builds right after a 24 hour retreat phase is excessive though.

[regoarrarr]

Yeah he could have disbanded A Rum and then build it in one of his home centers. Agree that 48 hours is excessive - usually retreats and build phases are 24

[scooter]

Diplo with MJW (I)

If I wasn't kind of a crazy person, I wouldn't be bothering, because MJW has shown 0 signs of being willing to even talk seriosuly - flippantly lying every time we talk. But if you don't even try to talk to brick walls, you don't get anywhere in this game, so here's my attempts.

So obviously I'm a little annoyed at you lying to me repeatedly, but I can get over that. I did start last phase's conversation off with a threat, so how about we call it even and move on.

The problem with this Key Lepanto setup is you really need Turkey to not get to build a second fleet. I'm going to be much harder to kill now with a second fleet. I don't think attacking me is really in your best interest at this point, since that promises stalemate. None of us can really afford stalemate either seeing as Germany just got himself out to 6 centers. So if you're interested in either switching sides or at least looking for a target other than me, I'm open to ideas. It's not really possible for me to stab you at this point seeing as your only nearby center is Serbia, and my fleets can't support my 1 army into Serbia, so you can be pretty confident that I'm just trying to be practical here on what's best for both of us.

No matter what, I will have the fleets necessary to stop you from sailing into aeg/eas and taking my centers. That means it's probably best for us to bury the hatchet and figure out how we can help each other.

Thanks,
scooter - Turkey

Hi Scooter,

Yah... When you said that you would allow Russia to take your SCs I had two options. 1. Backstab Rowain 2. Lie to you. Not saying anything would be the same thing as saying that I'm sticking with Rowain. Not denying guilt when questioned is the same as admitting guilt. So if I lie to you I might as well make you waste your turn.

TT really hates Rowain's and my guts. And Rowain really dislikes TT calling him a "fuck" in an e-mail he sent me. So when I backstab Rowain you can easily keep TT as an ally and beat me up. We are not even on speaking terms anymore. So I figure I have to wait until the north starts pushing Russia so I could take you both on after the stab.

Goodbye,
MJW

I ordered Ank-Arm. TT is hardly an ally anymore. I know he keeps feeding you the idea that him and I are best friends because he's trying to get you to ally with him to kill Rowain and then stab me. This is why I don't trust him, he'll stab me the minute he can get you or Rowain to flip. But if you force me to work with him, I will, and we'll stalemate you guys long enough to kill your chances of winning. You really don't even need to really stab Rowain, even going west against a very vulnerable France would be a strong move, and make you way too entrenched for me to ever stab.

I am building a fleet this turn. I'm just giving you a chance to convince me to build it in Ankara and use it against TT rather than in Smyrna and use it to halt your advance. It's going to be a lot easier for me to lift centers off TT than it is you, but you don't seem too interested in doing something to break up this stalemate, which just means Germany solos. We need to wrap up our theater quicker than planned, because Germany seems set to steamroll everyone.

Thanks,
scooter - Turkey

Shrug. Worth a shot. MJW is not someone who responds well to things like reason. So I'll try Rowain too.

Diplo with Rowain (RU)

This started after TT apparently stabbed Rowain by not supporting him into Bulgaria.

TT is an amazing ......

I wonder what you promised him .

But the west is extremely funny : ) England supports France France supports England and in the end Germany gets 3 SC and those 2 only 1

So I take it you expected TT to support you into Bulgaria, huh? I honestly don't know what to think from TT, he's been confusing to me. I was half-expecting him to help you. I certainly made him no shiny promises, none that were very shiny anyway

It's obvious to me we need to do something to shake up this stalemate, especially with Germany clearly running away with things in the west. The two of us would be in an easy position to carve up Russia right now, far easier than carving me up. It would require a little hand-waiving over MJW, but I think we can figure out a way to do that. I could support you into Rum, for one. Just floating ideas, let me know if you have any of your own.

Thanks,
scooter - Turkey

Don't know if I have answered this already but yeah I expected TT to support me into BUL. I have really no clue what to do with him. Getting rid of him would be great but I do have an Italy with 5 SC on my other border that needs something to do.

Rowain,

So I sent this via chat, but I don't think you were around. Anyway, I don't think the status quo is any good for either of us. You and Italy seem determined to stick together, which means Russia and I are forced to stick together. That means F Smy, halt Italy's expansion, and stalemate this advance as best as we can. You guys may eventually break through, sure, but by that point Germany is looking at a solo, and I don't think either of us want that.

To me, the most clear solution involves getting MJW to go west and take centers from an extremely vulnerable France while we carve up Russia. With an army already in Armenia and only 1 build coming for Russia, I'm in great shape to help make sure R collapses awfully quickly. I don't really trust TT either - appearances of an alliance aside, he hasn't been very forthright with me, and he's clearly been courting MJW into a deal that involves him stabbing me eventually. However, there's no chance I turn on him if I'm just going to get back door'd by MJW. Winning is off the table for me, but survival to the end and a chance to influence the game result is not. And I don't want to watch someone from the other side solo just because we can't figure out a way to resolve our sphere.

Thanks,
scooter - Turkey

-----

I see little choice but to just stick with TT and hope we can make something out of nothing. However, with dtay being dtay and Germany being super strong, it's only a matter of time until Russia collapses and then I'm next.

[Gaspar]

Yeah, doesn't look good.

[scooter]

I haven't updated, but there's not a whole lot going on. I can't even really stab TT if I wanted to because A & I won't back off enough for me to do it. Rowain won't stab MJW, mostly because he doesn't have much of a choice but to stick to the current path as Austria. MJW on the other hand would gain immensely by stabbing, but the voices in his head prevent him from doing anything but (very transparently) lying to me in every single message. So all we can really do is commit to this 2v2 stalemate while G runs away with the game. I don't think I'd play one of these games with MJW again, it just changes things a bit too much.

[Gaspar]

Yeah, I've been following along and not saying anything because there's really nothing to say. Carry on w/TT and hopefully MJW pulls his head out of his ass eventually and we can do something.

[Lewwyn]

C'mon. Kill Rowain.

I can't read these games with getting angry at everyone.

Dsiclaimer: I haven't read any other threads. Last time I play diplo with Rowain I ended up blocking him on gchat for a year.

[Gustaran]

I don't think I'd play one of these games with MJW again, it just changes things a bit too much.

It's great fun fo the lurkers, though. And truth be told, it makes the game more realistic. Sometimes I wonder if you expect too much when assuming you will have 6 cool headed rational players in your game. How often in history did leaders have to deal with crazy or silly people?

[scooter]

I don't think I'd play one of these games with MJW again, it just changes things a bit too much.

It's great fun fo the lurkers, though. And truth be told, it makes the game more realistic. Sometimes I wonder if you expect too much when assuming you will have 6 cool headed rational players in your game. How often in history did leaders have to deal with crazy or silly people?

It's not really about being cool-headed or rational or easy to handle. Rowain has a reputation for being difficult to negotiate with, and literally everyone is complaining about dtay's diplomacy, but I would play again with either of them no question. According to TT, MJW implied something just hours into the game about having something personal against myself and/or Gaspar (I have no idea), and so he wanted me gone. What's the point in even playing a game like this with someone like that?

[Gaspar]

So, uh, this continues to be the most insane game of diplomacy ever.

Why do I feel like TT & MJW bonding is just a precursor to our elimination? Why do I feel like maybe that isn't such a bad thing? I was going to say perhaps its time to jump into bed with Rowain, but he looks pretty well effed, so probably best just to let him die.